Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil • Hacker News Board

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#71

Post by dataker » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #41

Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native country. Because a lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes. This project is nothing more than a sharper and better diagnosis of topical symptoms. Unfortunately, the underlying disease remains without treatment. And if…

I am also a vira-lata, and couldn't agree more.

Brazil, like other 3rd world countries, has an endemic cultural problem that hinders economic, social or technological progress.

You can "fight" corruption, but if it's part of your culture, it will always find a way back.

Congrats for the project, but you'd really need to rewrite 500 years of history to make Brazil a livable place.

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#72

Post by hugocbp » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

lbrito wrote: post #24

Interesting project, but the false positives might turn people off. Stuff like a 50 BRL (~15 USD) pizza receipt ( https://jarbas.serenata.ai/layers/#/documentId/5611260 ) are not that interesting in a country with much more lavish public spenders. Namely, I'd like to see more public scrutiny against the illegal salaries judges receive in Brazil - which sometimes are twice or three times greater than the legal limit.

I say it is a start...

The thing is, the data is already public, but the volume is just so big that nobody paid much attention.

Now, at very least, some politicians will be weary of spending something that MIGHT look suspicious. Mostly the young ones.

The old politicians here have no shame whatsoever and know they will keep being elected until they die or retire.

About the judges salaries, there are a couple of other Twitter accounts that regularly publish out-of-ordinary payments as salaries and pensions.

As a Brazilian, I don't think this will change anything, but I think it is a great project that will at least prevent some "in your face" absurds that our politicians like do from time to time.

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#73

Post by hugocbp » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

getcrunk wrote: post #68

diego_moita wrote: post #41

Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native country. Because a lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes. This project is nothing more than a sharper and better diagnosis of topical symptoms. Unfortunately, the underlying disease remains without treatment. And if…

Most voters in most countries are stupid. See the 2016 US election

The difference here is that voting is compulsory and a much bigger part of the population can barely read, let alone judge more complex situations.

In the US, the "stupid" (as you call them) voters can stay at home if they are uninterested in the election. In the very least, this makes the voters be more involved.

Here, a lot of people only remember they need to vote when they try to buy beer on the Saturday before the election and they can't or when they turn the TV to watch their soap operas and see the mandatory political programs instead (and turn it off instead of watching).

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#74

Post by julioneander » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

onetimemanytime wrote: post #56

TremendousJudge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil is much, much worse off than the US. There the corruption goes all the way to the lowest levels of government. In the US local politicians don't pay a couple of bucks to a thousand dirt poor voters to vote in the county elections so they can win. In Brazil this happens everywhere.

That's the problem, it costs us a lot more than a few bucks. Billions and billions in spending or the US Senator will not vote the bill, or block it. F-35 is made in 45 states, only because all Senators and Congressmen want to buy votes (indirectly) http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/08/the-pentagons-399-billio... In Brazil they do it the honest way.

We have that problem too, a lot of the corruption (I'd say most but I don't have data) is to gather money to be used by the political parties on their campaigns, propaganda, etc. Buying voters with literal cash works with people that are very poor and mostly alienated by the government.

As voting is compulsory in Brazil, a lot of people vote on the person that appeared on the television, or the person that had pamphlets being distributed at the red lights, so spending money on campaign works, indirectly buying votes.

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#75

Post by binthere » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #41

Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native country. Because a lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes. This project is nothing more than a sharper and better diagnosis of topical symptoms. Unfortunately, the underlying disease remains without treatment. And if…

I could probably be considered a "vira-lata" too as probably many other Brazilians that lost hope at their countries. But I welcome any initiative from people that did not. I think that a "better diagnosis" is a step forward to a better "treatment".

I think that the stupid voter behavior is not part of the DNA of Brazilians. It is something that can change even if it looks very hard to do it. A lot of Brazilians are actually very tired of corruption, they know pretty well how bad things can get when politicians steal public money regardless of their level of education. They know it is that bad. Teachers don't get paid, policemen going on strikes, bridges falling, economy in shambles, etc. It affects their daily lives and it keeps getting worse.

I think that the "Rouba mas faz" might be true in some places but not everywhere. Now, think about it: you feel hopeless when you know that it's a problem but you don't know any better how to vote. How could you know? How can you trust 100% on someone else's integrity to represent you, specially in Brazil? It is at this point that the problem needs to be tackled from multiple angles. One of them being this initiative. Changing legislation, which happened, in regards to how campaign are run and who is eligible to become a candidate, punishing those who stole public money (Maluf is still in jail, Cabral is in jail, no everyone is in jail but justice is working now).

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#76

Post by julioneander » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 7:01 PM UTC

hugocbp wrote: post #73

getcrunk wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most voters in most countries are stupid. See the 2016 US election

The difference here is that voting is compulsory and a much bigger part of the population can barely read, let alone judge more complex situations. In the US, the "stupid" (as you call them) voters can stay at home if they are uninterested in the election. In the very least, this makes the voters be more involved. Here, a lot of people only remember they need to vote when they try to buy beer on the Saturday before t…

Yes, and they will vote on the person that had the biggest budget on their campaign most of the time, because that's the person they will see on the television or outdoors. A lot of the corruption in Brazil is for stealing money to spend on political campaigns.

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#77

Post by dashoffset » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

lbrito wrote: post #55

TremendousJudge wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about a country that gave 1.35 million votes to a literal clown [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca

The world's largest economic power and largest democracy, aka United States, elected a Western movie actor and a Reality TV star as presidents. The clown pales in comparison.

Sorry, but there is no comparison. None of them were elected by saying: "Vote Reagan (or Trump). It can't get worse than this".

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#78

Post by lmcarreiro » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

forinti wrote: post #33

Brazil is currently overly excited with fighting corruption when its greatest problems lie unperturbed. Income is too concentrated, taxes are highly regressive, and half the federal budget goes into servicing the debt. All spheres of brazilian government have achieved a good level of transparency. But the national debate is always skewed by the current scandal cooked up by the media (that's another serious issue: the…

that's exactly what happens, couldn't agree more!

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#79

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

lbrito wrote: post #55

TremendousJudge wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about a country that gave 1.35 million votes to a literal clown [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca

The world's largest economic power and largest democracy, aka United States, elected a Western movie actor and a Reality TV star as presidents. The clown pales in comparison.

The people that voted for Trump didn't vote for him because he was a reality TV star.

Re: Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze public spending in Brazil

#80

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

getcrunk wrote: post #68

diego_moita wrote: post #41

Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native country. Because a lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes. This project is nothing more than a sharper and better diagnosis of topical symptoms. Unfortunately, the underlying disease remains without treatment. And if…

Most voters in most countries are stupid. See the 2016 US election

How so? It seems your choice was a potentially corrupt (FBI email investigation announcement weeks before election) status-quo candidate or a populist outsider.