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Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

hearth.eternum.io

61–70 of 106 posts

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... at the same time making it harder to shut down caches of the same illicit content. I recognize this is already a problem with torrents, but then my question becomes how do we not repeat the mistake? The mistake to avoid here would be trying to design censorship into an otherwise open and decentralized content distribution system. Don't try to shut down the content. If someone was harmed in the making of the conte…

> If someone was harmed in the making of the content, then use it as evidence to deal with the root of the issue; otherwise it's none of your concern. I think you're missing the larger picture, though. It's never isolated to singular instances. If the content is decentralized, then so can the problem be. You wouldn't say smallpox shouldn't be completely eradicated because "it never hurt me, so it's none of my concern…

If the content is decentralized, then so can the problem be.

Sure, but the content is not the problem, and eliminating the content does not eliminate the problem. The content is merely evidence of a problem. It may even help you locate the actual parties responsible. Dealing with the root cause would be harder if the content were more difficult to find.

You wouldn't say smallpox shouldn't be completely eradicated because "it never hurt me, so it's none of my concern."

What I said was that "it's none of your concern" unless "someone was harmed in the making of the content". Smallpox actually hurts people. Protecting people from smallpox is a worthwhile concern. We do that mainly by making people resistant to smallpox so that it doesn't get a chance to infect people and spread. Censorship is not like vaccination, much less eradicating the smallpox virus; it's more like eliminating all knowledge of how smallpox works. It doesn't address the problem, makes actual solutions harder, and has far-ranging side effects.

Your solution is reactive.

Taking down content you've identified subjectively as "undesirable" is a reactive response. Worse, it's reacting to and addressing only the surface symptoms, which means it isn't a solution to the real problem, that someone was harmed to create the content. You aren't going to stop people from being harmed in the real world by redacting the evidence.

On the other hand, designing a system to be resistant to censorship from the outset is a proactive approach to dealing with the threat of censorship.

what is everybody so concerned about having censored? It's not exactly a problem [in North America or online].

You have cause and effect reversed. It is (mostly) not a problem in North America or online because everybody is so concerned about it. It is a problem in places where censorship is treated as a normal and routine practice—for example, China.

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#62
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but to access a site published on Beaker you must use the Beaker browser, right?

If it's published on Hashbase, you can access it with any HTTP client (though this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p). Otherwise, you will need a dat:// client - Beaker is the main web browser with dat:// support, other clients sofar have more specialised uses, e.g. https://github.com/codeforscience/sciencefair

> this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p

Beaker/Hashbase dev here. Not quite, imo. The key difference is that a service like Hashbase has no special authorship priveleges (unlike Google Docs or Dropbox), and is instead an agnostic peer. We think that's an important distinction.

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#63
How does Hearth achieve the "decentralized" status? I assume Hearth is offering a small-volume pinning service on the side as a charity right now? If that's true, it's essentially no more "decentralized" than a normal website.

What am I missing?

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#64
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but to access a site published on Beaker you must use the Beaker browser, right?

If it's published on Hashbase, you can access it with any HTTP client (though this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p). Otherwise, you will need a dat:// client - Beaker is the main web browser with dat:// support, other clients sofar have more specialised uses, e.g. https://github.com/codeforscience/sciencefair

Would it be possible to incorporate dat:// support into existing browsers as a plugin?

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#65
post #2

Why not use Beaker[0] and achieve the same thing, but on linux and windows too? It has a great community too [0]( http://beakerbrowser.com/ )

I find that Beaker doesn't cut through corporate/university firewalls as good as IPFS. I'd be interested to know others experiences.

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone was harmed in the making of the content, then use it as evidence to deal with the root of the issue; otherwise it's none of your concern. I think you're missing the larger picture, though. It's never isolated to singular instances. If the content is decentralized, then so can the problem be. You wouldn't say smallpox shouldn't be completely eradicated because "it never hurt me, so it's none of my concern…

If the content is decentralized, then so can the problem be. Sure, but the content is not the problem, and eliminating the content does not eliminate the problem. The content is merely evidence of a problem. It may even help you locate the actual parties responsible. Dealing with the root cause would be harder if the content were more difficult to find. You wouldn't say smallpox shouldn't be completely eradicated bec…

The content becomes a part of the problem when it is liable to spread the "disease" (to continue the allegory).

I get the feeling we're discussing this on differing levels of severity, here.

I'm not talking about dissenting political opinions or pseudoscience or conspiracy theories or counter-culture or drugs or anything silly like that, but things more impactful and corrosive to humanity.

The persistence of certain content that isn't proliferated as a study has [arguably] the effect of normalizing itself, and whatever it resulted from.

---

I've been avoiding semantics, but let's go with a relatively specific example:

A person was raped. It was recorded.The gruesome story was detailed as entertainment for a sick (yeah, letting my bias out here) group of fans and interested or curious parties. The guilty party is found and apprehended, sentenced, and punished according to local law. Justice was served according to society's mandate. We consider this good.

Now of the persistent content. It's now in the hands of hundreds to tens or hundreds of thousands of people globally. Curious parties become interested parties, interested parties become fans, fans become culprits.

And all the while the victims get to live, not only with the experience, but with the knowledge that there are swathes of people enjoying the repeat viewing of the situation and the knowledge that it will never go away.

---

It's a big 'what if'. I could say the same about your position that if we don't gain total and open ability to publish whatever information whenever and have it persist forever that we will succumb to evil, oppressive forces. It's speculative.

I don't want to come across as if I'm coming down on the IPFS platform, or the interface Stavros ingeniously developed for it. Quite the opposite. I think that not enough thought goes into how powerful the platform really has the potential of being.

Software and network developers have a lot of inherent power to move large ideas with relatively few resources, and it should be recognized more often. And it should be discussed, honestly, whether one implementation or another is the best we can do before releasing it on society.

I'm of the opinion that ethical questions should be asked of engineers, and that empathy needs a larger role in the process of [not necessarily research, invention and development, but] implementation.

---

"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."

Ellie Wiesel

---

Feynman on a Buddhist saying:

“To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven. The same key opens the gates of hell.

And so it is with science.”

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#67

How does Hearth achieve the "decentralized" status? I assume Hearth is offering a small-volume pinning service on the side as a charity right now? If that's true, it's essentially no more "decentralized" than a normal website. What am I missing?

IPFS

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#68
Never having used or looked into Beaker, dat, ipfs, etc, some immediate questions about security implications come to mind:

1) Someone accesses your "site" directly on your computer via ipfs/dat whatever it is. This is static content I guess? And it's like your computer is just running a static webserver (kinda/sorta? if not, or something more dynamic please advise). So, are there security implications here? Is there an attack surface that a client/viewer of your content could leverage?

2) Sort of opposite question as in 1. You are the client/viewer of the "site," directly connected to some dude's computer via ipfs/dat or whatever. Obviously I should use standard security measures and not just go clickity on anything/everything I see, but beyond that, are there any other security implications for the client? I could download a virus I'm sure by clicking or downloading a malicious file, but beyond that, could I get hacked by the target in a more dynamic way than that?

3) How do I "navigate" in ipfs/dat-land? How do I know what URL to go to, and if this "URL" might be a safe site, or like what the hell is this URL if it's just some kind of hash? Is there a "google" of ipfs/dat sites/content?

Stuff like this. :) Any feedback would be muchly appreciated!

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#69
post #67

How does Hearth achieve the "decentralized" status? I assume Hearth is offering a small-volume pinning service on the side as a charity right now? If that's true, it's essentially no more "decentralized" than a normal website. What am I missing?

IPFS

IPFS doesn't actually distribute hosting unless someone else goes through the trouble of doing pinning. Some gateways may keep local copies but they're also free to destroy local copies.

In the typical deployment where nodes refer to their own local IPFS services, it's often the case that the primary IPFS pin serves the majority of traffic.

If we're going to call that "distributed" then so are normal webpages with random caching options.

Re: Show HN: Hearth – A Dropbox-like, IPFS-powered personal website publisher

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the content is decentralized, then so can the problem be. Sure, but the content is not the problem, and eliminating the content does not eliminate the problem. The content is merely evidence of a problem. It may even help you locate the actual parties responsible. Dealing with the root cause would be harder if the content were more difficult to find. You wouldn't say smallpox shouldn't be completely eradicated bec…

The content becomes a part of the problem when it is liable to spread the "disease" (to continue the allegory). I get the feeling we're discussing this on differing levels of severity, here. I'm not talking about dissenting political opinions or pseudoscience or conspiracy theories or counter-culture or drugs or anything silly like that, but things more impactful and corrosive to humanity. The persistence of certain…

Comparing wrongthink to disease has a sorry history.

If you don't want to see bad things on IPFS, don't access them.

If you wish to force other people to not see them either, the process is similar to anything else on the Internet.

There's no need for moral panic.

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