Where are all the films about poor Americans? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#41

Post by madenine » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:10 PM UTC

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

The last paragraph of the piece kinda struck me:

"And perhaps if others saw more realistic portrayals of poverty in the movies, they might be more receptive to programs that would help them instead of demeaning and punishing them."

I would love an example where 'realistic portrayals' of a given subject in movies led to changes in public policy / public perception.

If anything, I would argue that popular films, just like other art forms, are more likely to serve as a barometer of society's perception/reception of a given subject than as something that ignites the change.

Take the war in Vietnam in the 60's and 70's - I'm not sure you could make 'The Deer Hunter' in '68, or 'The Green Berets' in '78.

Or the war on drugs - movies like Trainspotting, Requiem for a Dream, or Traffic certainly showed a realistic side of drugs and addiction... and yet the war on drugs has only intensified since their popular releases.

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#42

Post by Antimachides » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

I really liked The Florida Project. I spent time in motels as a child because my mom was an addict. The film is very genuine.

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#43

Post by lucozade » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

> When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment?

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not people so much as a person whose most recent book happens to be called "Ghettos, Tramps, and Welfare Queens: Down and Out on the Silver Screen".

I do try hard not to be cynical but this chap's profession is poverty and he has a new book out on cinematic depictions of poverty. It's a struggle not to just see this as tying in the Oscars for marketing purposes.

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#44

Post by ggg9990 » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

There’s no obligation for entertainment to be political — nobody is asking why films about poverty don’t sell more tickets. But there is an expectation that award shows like the Oscars bring some values to the table. And if you accept that the Oscars should be something other than announcing the most profitable or most entertaining films of the year, if things like gender and race representation matter (reasonable people can disagree on this), then certainly class representation should also matter.

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#45

Post by curun1r » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

> When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment?

Your points on cherry picking not withstanding, this statement is incredibly short-sighted. Movies are just the latest incarnation of a long line of storytelling. And for centuries, artists have used their usually-comfortable working conditions to shine a light on those less fortunate. Go read some Émile Zola, Victor Hugo, Charles Dickens or John Steinbeck and tell me that their stories were written solely to entertain. Those great writers found ways to intermingle drama and social commentary. That should be every storyteller's goal. If stories don't help us learn to be better people, what's the point? If they just become escapism to rid ourselves of our unpleasant existence for a couple of hours, they only help perpetuate situations that need changing.

Movies are like food...if all you eat is junk, you'll end up fat and unhealthy. Vegetables can also taste good while keeping you healthy. Movie makers should be searching for the kinds of stories that are both entertaining and keep our society healthy. Instead we get the metaphorical equivalent of donuts...all powerful superheroes who teach us nothing about ourselves or the people we live with. You can say that all you want to see are enjoyable movies, but I don't think it's out of line for others to hold Hollywood to account for failing to live up to the storytelling legacy they've inherited.

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#46

Post by 1024core » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

> When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment?

Where did people get the idea that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment?

Film has always been art: the purpose of art is to provoke thought, hold up a mirror to society and, of course, entertainment (among others): the ratio of ingredients can change, but it's never been solely about entertainment.

These days, the studios are pumping out motion renderings of comics, as if some ML algorithm that decides on what to work on is in some sort of a feedback loop.

Where are this generation's "Mr Smith goes to Washington"? "Gone with the Wind"? "Apocalypse Now"? (not to imply that these 3 are the best movies out there, just some names off the top of my head, and I'm no cinephile, so let's not get into a movie-naming contest).

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#47

Post by pmoriarty » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

sremani wrote: post #31

hadsed wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredible that you cite artistic expression for your case. It is likely the money making side that makes it difficult to do anything truly new because the predominantly affluent (and yes, white) masses may be skittish about it. You should think about its broader impact on society, because while you have the time and resources to complain about not being entertained enough (incredible in this age of over entert…

>> predominantly affluent (and yes, white) masses We know this argument is incorrect to an extent because at least for the top-tier films their world-wide collections overshadow the US collections. US itself is not as white as it used to be, and when you add world-wide audience its more mixed. You could have made your point by not stereo-typing.

It's not as much about the white masses as it is about the white, affluent people in power in Hollywood and in the rest of the US entertainment industry (which is still the overwhelmingly dominant entertainment industry in the world).

They're the ones that make most of the decisions, and are responsible for what the masses see. They're also the ones who give themselves awards and pat each other on the back at the Oscars:

"In 2012, the results of a study conducted by the Los Angeles Times were published describing the demographic breakdown of approximately 88% of AMPAS' voting membership. Of the 5,100+ active voters confirmed, 94% were Caucasian, 77% were male, and 54% were found to be over the age of 60."[1]

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscars#Voters

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#48

Post by guitarbill » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

hadsed wrote: post #17

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

It is incredible that you cite artistic expression for your case. It is likely the money making side that makes it difficult to do anything truly new because the predominantly affluent (and yes, white) masses may be skittish about it. You should think about its broader impact on society, because while you have the time and resources to complain about not being entertained enough (incredible in this age of over entert…

> there are people's stories not being told precisely because you would prefer entertainment to something that challenges your views on what is even entertaining. > Not only that, but who says these movies can't be entertaining??

Brilliant! Except, erm, which one of the top 50 grossing films is telling somebody's story? And are we sure that affluent people are really going to the cinema much? Also, different people go to see different films (e.g. 50 Shades of Gray being the obvious example, or kids films). Certainly escapism/entertainment seems like a common motive with the recent super hero movies. But also, attendance drops when there's no film that people want to watch, so again it's not clear that people would go watch such films even if they existed and the favourable condition that there was no other blockbuster out there happened to occur. In other words, it doesn't seem to be zero sum game.

So maybe it's not the big bad affluent white "masses" fault, but it's a facile argument to throw out there.

But even if we accept that's true, the cost of film making has dropped dramatically. People could make whatever these grim, poignant but yet still entertaining films, put them on YouTube, and watch the views rack up if people truly wanted to watch them. And yet most stuff in YouTube is also pure entertainment. Strange...

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#49

Post by empath75 » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

allthenews wrote: post #4

When did people lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of film on the silver screen is entertainment? Where do authors like OP get the idea that I want to go to the movies to have politics shoved down my throat? And that there is some kind of obligation for those in charge to forgo their primary motivations of artistic expression and/or profit in the interest of some totally arbitrary target of "representati…

One of my favorite movies of all time is City of God, which is about Brazilian favelas. You can make movies about poor people that are just as entertaining and compelling as any movie about super spies or whatever.

Re: Where are all the films about poor Americans?

#50

Post by DanBC » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

dluan wrote: post #2

Last year's Palme dOr at Cannes was the British film I, Daniel Blake . It was a fantastic gut punch for how even well-intentioned technology is leaving behind parts of society. My partner and I had a very heated 2 hour discussion after watching it.

I, Daniel Blake has absolutely nothing to do with technology and people being left behind.

It's entirely about the fucking awful mess caused by the Conservative government introducing Universal Credit and a punitive benefits regime.

Being fully tech proficient won't prevent a Universal Credit claimant from being sanctioned.

Daniel Blake has heart problems and is advised by his doctor not to work. But he fails his independent medical.

Here's a real life example: A man with heart problems was told not to work. He has the medical. He has a heart attack during the medical, and the independent assessor has to call an ambo.

To you or me this is proof he's not faking and he really is ill.

To the government he didn't complete the medical, which is a sanctionable failing.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm13...

> Again, I support the principle of a sanctions regime. If somebody consistently fails to turn up for work experience or a Work programme scheme, sanctions should be applied. However, I believe that sanctions are being applied indiscriminately. For example, one of my constituents was a beneficiary of employment and support allowance after they had retired on grounds of ill health as a result of a heart problem. He was required to attend a work capability assessment with Atos. During

> 19 Mar 2013 : Column 840

> the assessment, he was told that he was having a heart attack and the nurse said that she had to stop the assessment. He got a letter a couple of weeks later saying that he had withdrawn from the assessment and, as such, was being sanctioned. That beggars belief. I have other examples, as I am sure do colleagues.