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Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

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Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#141

Post by ISL »

maxxxxx wrote: post #111
Zhyl wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or moreover it shows that money isn't necessarily the limiting factor in success that many perceive it to be.

That's what I am thinking when people talk about tax cuts. Apple or Google don't need more money. They already have more than they can invest productively.

That's an explanation -- another is that Apple and Google believe that future uses of the resources could yield greater aggregate return (or serve as a bulwark against a downturn).

"Cash is a call option with no expiration date" https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/042613/cash-...

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#142

Post by usefulcat »

endtime wrote: post #93
adamcharnock wrote: post #36

I wonder, was Google Fibre ever intended to succeed in the traditional sense? Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry by 1) scaring the incumbents into improving, and 2) expanding consumers' Overton windows[1] regarding what they could/should expect. Google presumably wants to ensure its services can be delivered to consumers, so this would seem towards that end. As another commenter notes…

I worked for Fiber for two years. It was both (wanting to succeed as a business and wanting to shift the industry), with a primary focus on succeeding as a business, or at least that was what the internal messaging was. I won't comment on any possible changes in the last couple years or why they may have happened, except to say that to the best of my knowledge, at no point was the sentiment, "We've shifted the indust…

> ... at no point was the sentiment, "We've shifted the industry enough that we can stop pretending to want to succeed."

I don't doubt you, but I would definitely expect that sort of messaging even if the true primary goal for GF was to be disruptive, as opposed to profitable.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#143

Post by EADGBE »

exabrial wrote: post #106

Living near kc, they're not very good at marketing to the local audiences. Many people don't understand the difference between 1gpbs and "up to 300mbps".

So much of KC still isn't available (metro, specifically), which is also a large problem.

I don't think most people care when their typical WiFi setup will only get them in the 100-150 real-world range.

As much as I'd love to sign up for Spectrum's 940 downloads, I can't even hit the 200 I'm limited to with any of my internet devices.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#144

Post by EADGBE »

cm2187 wrote: post #8

But is wireless seriously an alternative to fiber? I mean with 4k streaming spreading, what will happen on a super bowl night? There is only one shared bandwidth.

Yeah, don't throw out that TV air antennae yet. If if you're networking is doing fine, major broadcasting stations still can't seem to get live streaming at scale right.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#145

Post by masklinn »

kaennar wrote: post #128
masklinn wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exactly. Fiber to the home is the only fiber than really matters. If there is fiber but my last mile is old copper, then that doesn’t do me a lot of good does it? I wouldn't go quite that far e.g. let's say you're my parents in a village of 300 (and as many cows) with the DSLAM >5km away, the best DSL you can get is 1024k on a good day (and on average closer to 512k with pings in the half-second range), my understa…

But how would you carry a model like that over to a place as big as the USA? Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and just about every state that isn't on the East/West coast would have an incredibly difficult time executing this kind of plan because of the distance between communities. I'm not saying that a similar model wouldn't be easy to implement in the boroughs of New York, Boston, SV, Austin, etc., but w…

> But how would you carry a model like that over to a place as big as the USA? Montana, Wyoming, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and just about every state that isn't on the East/West coast would have an incredibly difficult time executing this kind of plan because of the distance between communities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act

> I'm not saying that a similar model wouldn't be easy to implement in the boroughs of New York, Boston, SV, Austin, etc.

Oh please, the village I'm talking about is not a borough of a major metropolis, it's a small rural village, the closest thing which could be construed as a city has a population of under 50k and is 20km away.

Boston and Austin have metro populations in the millions, there's barely 6 cities in all of France which reach that.

> you still have 20% of Americans living in not-urban environments

Oh good point, let's check the percentage of rural population in france. Hey look, it's 20%. Wow, probably an outlier, let's check Germany. Oh, 24%. Maybe Spain? 20% again.

And these are highly urbanised countries mind, Ireland and Portugal are sitting at 36% rural population.

> The USA is just a very, very big place with populations, even urban, that sprawl and are not condensed like in London, Paris, Munich or other countries in the fiber fight.

None of London, Paris or Munich are countries, they're major/capital cities inside countries which have their own non-urban populations.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#146

Post by PaulHoule »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #49
leereeves wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it is a given that Musk ever intended for Tesla's success to be an economic one. What did Musk tell investors?

Good point, but would investors now stand to benefit over all from expediting the development of electric vehicles, solar and space transportation?

People spend good money on cars, electricity, and rocket launches.

I think the last one is a particularly good business because even though the US military has understood that cost reduction is job #1 for the use of space, the conventional cost plus model of developing rockets and then building and launch them can put stuff in orbit but cannot do cost reduction.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#147

Post by golfer »

300bps wrote: post #66
adamcharnock wrote: post #36

I wonder, was Google Fibre ever intended to succeed in the traditional sense? Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry by 1) scaring the incumbents into improving, and 2) expanding consumers' Overton windows[1] regarding what they could/should expect. Google presumably wants to ensure its services can be delivered to consumers, so this would seem towards that end. As another commenter notes…

Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry I’ve been a happy Verizon FIOS customer for 12 years. For $140 per month I have TV with every pay channel, landline phone and gigabit Internet. The gigabit is relatively recent but I get full gigabit speeds for up and down and it is amazing. I think you’re right that I don’t believe Verizon would’ve offered this at this price without the threat of Go…

Verizon plays shenanigans with it's prices though [0]. Initial pricing that skyrockets after 12 months, for example, and other hidden costs.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/25/15423998/verizon-70-gigab...

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#148

Post by ergothus »

ailideex wrote: post #96
cdancette wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where are you living? This sounds a lot like being due a high level of corruption. I think that's one challenge to overcome, you're right that public services are not automatically better

Where I live is irrelevant as this speaks to the point that "profit-focused corporations can't provide the same quality of service.". They can and do all the time. Maybe not in France and maybe not in USA - but the for profit model works just fine here. Why it works so well some places and not at all in others is the real kicker. And yes the problem is exceptionally high levels of corruption - but if the Govt does no…

> Where I live is irrelevant as this speaks to the point that "profit-focused corporations can't provide the same quality of service."

Um..not sure how validating your evidence is irrelevant. Or even wanting to know more about it.

And to the other poster's point, personal experience impacts interpretations a lot (in both directions). I myself consider the govt inefficient but reliable when compared to private companies. I'm not a libertarian because I trust the govt, but because I trust companies less. I've spoken with people from countries with lots of govt corruption and they find the idea of a reliable govt to be a joke. We each have a lifetime of experience to support our positions.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#149

Post by axaxs »

rayiner wrote: post #137
kyrra wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Fiber hit a lot of roadblocks along the way that slowed things down. You have the lawsuit from AT&T against local government in Louisville[0]. There was also a lot of arguments[1][2] around the country for Google trying to access utility poles to hang their wires. Incumbents tried their hardest to prevent Google from hanging new wires. Many of the laws in-place today make it difficult for new companies to hang…

Your analysis is backwards. There aren't special laws that "make it difficult for new companies to hang wires." The issue was not Google hanging its own wires, but Google contractors moving AT&T's wires in order to make space on the poles. Louisville passed special laws to enable one company to relocate another company's property on utility poles. I think those laws are a good idea, but its hard to blame AT&T for not…

While I absolutely agree with you, that setup would have been untenable. I had an ATT line hanging about 6 feet off the ground(in Louisville, pole neighborhood). Took ATT multiple calls and visits, a total process of about a month, to adjust that one line on one pole. Now imagine a citywide rollout.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#150

Post by clhodapp »

demygale wrote: post #130
endtime wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for Fiber for two years. It was both (wanting to succeed as a business and wanting to shift the industry), with a primary focus on succeeding as a business, or at least that was what the internal messaging was. I won't comment on any possible changes in the last couple years or why they may have happened, except to say that to the best of my knowledge, at no point was the sentiment, "We've shifted the indust…

GF suffers the same fate of every other Google initiative: new exec decides it can't advance his career so it's starved to death in favor of something shinier. Google won't save us any more than Musk will. It's billionaires launching cars into space and fighting for personal wealth at the detriment of the rest of the society.

> It's billionaires launching cars into space and fighting for personal wealth at the detriment of the rest of the society.

I would entertain an argument that Google Fiber hasn't actually helped society very much but I have a hard time buying that it's been harmful... At worst, it's driven the other players in the regions it's in to offer more bandwidth for less money. At best, it headed off rising a trend of ISPs deceiving the public about what was possible in an effort to suppress speeds and tightly meter bandwidth...

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