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Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

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Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#61

Post by anon96707 »

sureaboutthis wrote: post #31
cdancette wrote: post #17

This is why I'm happy to live in a country like France where the government takes part in deploying those infrastructures (by investing money in the deployment). They planned to equip 50% of the territory by 2017 (which was achieved), and 100% by 2022. Same goes for public service, profit-focused corporations can't provide the same quality of service.

It would help if the USA was as small as France.

It is interesting that this argument is reflexively brought up every time someone mentions infrastructure.

It is not the absolute size that matters, it is density and clustering degrees. And there are some sparsely populated countries in Europe that manage to build infrastructure just fine.

Population density:

    USA: 35.0/km² (90.6/sq mi)
    Norway:  15.8/km² (40.9/sq mi)

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#62

Post by [deleted] »

_nalply wrote: post #44
sureaboutthis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would help if the USA was as small as France.

To begin start in a metropolitan region and if it is profitable expand. The problem is something different: The incumbent providers are successful in preventing competition.

[deleted]

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#63

Post by twelve40 »

klibertp wrote: post #59
twelve40 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny though. No offense and I love France, and I love Europe (really do!), but FB's and GOOG's and BABA's of the world seem to be ... elsewhere? inverse correlation?

What does the existence of mentioned companies have to do with the quality of life in a country? For their employees, maybe, but I don't think FB/GOOG/MSFT employ most of the US population?

Quality of life, of course not. But Europe taking over the world with startups and new tech? ...um I'd love it if it was the case, but it's just not.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#64

Post by walshemj »

nukeop wrote: post #25

If even Google cannot penetrate this market then it's for all intents and purposes 100% impenetrable. Unless somebody comes up with a radically different strategy, the ISP market in USA should be considered monopolized and should be broken down by the government (fat chance). In any case, it's game over for consumers - abandon all hope.

LLU makes more sense but I cant see this happening for at least the next 8 years or so.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#65

Post by adamcharnock »

leereeves wrote: post #43
adamcharnock wrote: post #36

I wonder, was Google Fibre ever intended to succeed in the traditional sense? Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry by 1) scaring the incumbents into improving, and 2) expanding consumers' Overton windows[1] regarding what they could/should expect. Google presumably wants to ensure its services can be delivered to consumers, so this would seem towards that end. As another commenter notes…

> I don't think it is a given that Musk ever intended for Tesla's success to be an economic one. What did Musk tell investors?

I have observed a wide range of attitudes towards deception. Both deception of one's self, and of others.

For example: For some people being 'a liar' is one of the worst things imaginable, but to others it is perfectly fine. The former judge the latter as being immoral monsters, the latter think the former are rather sweet (and are perhaps also glad the former exist?).

Regarding deception of one's self: some people feel there is an absolute truth that can be known, whereas others may choose their reality and belief systems to fit their needs in any given moment.

I'm describing opposite ends of two spectrums here, rather than categories.

I think people make assumptions about where Musk is on those spectrums.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#66

Post by 300bps »

adamcharnock wrote: post #36

I wonder, was Google Fibre ever intended to succeed in the traditional sense? Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry by 1) scaring the incumbents into improving, and 2) expanding consumers' Overton windows[1] regarding what they could/should expect. Google presumably wants to ensure its services can be delivered to consumers, so this would seem towards that end. As another commenter notes…

Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry

I’ve been a happy Verizon FIOS customer for 12 years. For $140 per month I have TV with every pay channel, landline phone and gigabit Internet. The gigabit is relatively recent but I get full gigabit speeds for up and down and it is amazing. I think you’re right that I don’t believe Verizon would’ve offered this at this price without the threat of Google and other competitors.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#67

Post by rayiner »

cdancette wrote: post #17

This is why I'm happy to live in a country like France where the government takes part in deploying those infrastructures (by investing money in the deployment). They planned to equip 50% of the territory by 2017 (which was achieved), and 100% by 2022. Same goes for public service, profit-focused corporations can't provide the same quality of service.

The US has higher fiber penetration as a percentage of broadband subscribers according to OECD: http://www.oecd.org/sti/broadband/1.10-PctFibreToTotalBroadb... (11.8% versus 9.5%). The US average connection speed on Akamai’s study are also about double that of France: https://www.akamai.com/fr/fr/multimedia/documents/state-of-t... (18.7 mbps versus 10.8 mbps; 48% of the U.S. has a connection above 15 mbps, versus 18% of France).

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#68

Post by rayiner »

300bps wrote: post #66
adamcharnock wrote: post #36

I wonder, was Google Fibre ever intended to succeed in the traditional sense? Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry by 1) scaring the incumbents into improving, and 2) expanding consumers' Overton windows[1] regarding what they could/should expect. Google presumably wants to ensure its services can be delivered to consumers, so this would seem towards that end. As another commenter notes…

Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry I’ve been a happy Verizon FIOS customer for 12 years. For $140 per month I have TV with every pay channel, landline phone and gigabit Internet. The gigabit is relatively recent but I get full gigabit speeds for up and down and it is amazing. I think you’re right that I don’t believe Verizon would’ve offered this at this price without the threat of Go…

Google might have made the $70 price point happen. But I’m not sure I’d overstate it. AT&T and Verizon are deploying gigabit in places where Google will never go. Verizon's gigabit upgrade happened after Google had already paused Fiber expansion. Comcast started offering $150/month multi-gig in my town long after that too.

I strongly suspect 5G is instead causing renewed interest in fiber deployment. Comcast wants to get in on a cellular/wifi hybrid service, and for that it needs backhaul.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#69

Post by pjc50 »

twelve40 wrote: post #20
cdancette wrote: post #17

This is why I'm happy to live in a country like France where the government takes part in deploying those infrastructures (by investing money in the deployment). They planned to equip 50% of the territory by 2017 (which was achieved), and 100% by 2022. Same goes for public service, profit-focused corporations can't provide the same quality of service.

Funny though. No offense and I love France, and I love Europe (really do!), but FB's and GOOG's and BABA's of the world seem to be ... elsewhere? inverse correlation?

France had Minitel before the Internet was a consumer-product.

It's true that Europe does "disruptive" startups less, because people don't like being disrupted as much, but it's not true that France is a land of tech-illiterate peasants. It's just that the tech is done in large, somewhat lumbering but nonetheless profitable, megacorps.

Orange, Vivendi, Airbus, Bull, ST, and so on.

Re: Eight Years On, Google Fiber Is a Faint Echo of the Disruption Promised

#70

Post by radiorental »

300bps wrote: post #66
adamcharnock wrote: post #36

I wonder, was Google Fibre ever intended to succeed in the traditional sense? Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry by 1) scaring the incumbents into improving, and 2) expanding consumers' Overton windows[1] regarding what they could/should expect. Google presumably wants to ensure its services can be delivered to consumers, so this would seem towards that end. As another commenter notes…

Instead, perhaps it was an attempt by Google to change the industry I’ve been a happy Verizon FIOS customer for 12 years. For $140 per month I have TV with every pay channel, landline phone and gigabit Internet. The gigabit is relatively recent but I get full gigabit speeds for up and down and it is amazing. I think you’re right that I don’t believe Verizon would’ve offered this at this price without the threat of Go…

Fwiw, $140 is quite a lot. We shared what everyone was paying for Fios here at work. I'm on the upper end of $65 for 50/50 (no TV). The lowest we found was 1G for $40.

the trick seems to be to cancel and sign up again for the new user deals.

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