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Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

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Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#51
post #21

I wish we could have continued with much better relations with Russia, instead of seeing polarization escalating and going from the possibility of humanity becoming extinct within 1 hour into the possibility of becoming extinct within 20 minutes. At some point some mad person is likely going to push the button, all just because we are programmed to compete and win by all means with help of misguided philosophies.

This is the sentiment that our Russian friends have. When the USA decided to quit the ABM treaty in 2002 the old doctrine of 'MAD' was no more and the arms race was fully back on, with the USA doing most of the spending and all the sabre-rattling.

I am amazed at how this story has not been covered by the mainstream media in the UK (and presumably the USA). This Russian capability upgrade has rendered the already useless UK nuclear deterrent into a very expensive joke, however, the penny has not dropped and we are in denial about it.

My 'friends' in the doughnut (GCHQ) do know that Trident is useless, the problem being undersea drones. From my casual chats I know this has been a problem for a few years now and that some changes are having to be made, Ascencion Island being the quiet little place where things happen. Such as last year when a test firing resulted in a missile heading towards Florida (which nobody really cared about).

Since there is only one UK nuclear armed submarine at sea at a given time it is imaginable that this crusty white elephant can be stalked by a deeper diving and faster nuclear tipped and nuclear armed drone across the oceans and back to its base in Faslane at all times. Therefore the anonymity of the oceans is no more, the 'deterrent' therefore is in Emperor's New Clothes territory, but we can pretend and we can ignore what Moscow has to say.

Trident never made any sense to the UK, there is no money left for the conventional fleet, operations such as the Falklands really are not possible any more. Crazy politicians from Margaret Thatcher to Tony Blair and Theresa May have been the decision makers, wasting money on war preparations that go against the ethos of the UN and the rule of law. Meanwhile, in Russia they have actually clued up politicians in Putin and his chums that play far better chess than what our 'ruling elite' are capable of.

Neither the UK or the USA have been repeatedly invaded as has happened in Russian history. Our weapon systems are primarily offensive, the Russians may have plenty of hypersonic nuclear missiles pointed at the dreaded imperialists (!) but there is no evidence that the goals in the Cold War era or even now were to obliterate and invade the USA or Western Europe.

More money, human potential and precious materials wasted on war preparations is not a good thing, however, by investing in their military-industrial-complex the Russian government has restored a multi-lateral world. It was not so fun in 2001-2003 when Bush and Blair were able to commit their war crimes with it being a 'unilateral world', so progress has been made towards a safer world by having these deadly new weapons pointed at us and able to destroy life on earth so quickly.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#52
post #21

I wish we could have continued with much better relations with Russia, instead of seeing polarization escalating and going from the possibility of humanity becoming extinct within 1 hour into the possibility of becoming extinct within 20 minutes. At some point some mad person is likely going to push the button, all just because we are programmed to compete and win by all means with help of misguided philosophies.

Extinct, hardly. In fact it's difficult to conceive of an event that could make humans, the most adaptable species in the history of Earth fully extinct - it would have to be an incredibly violent event that wipes out pretty much all non-microbial life on the planet. Most things we worry about, like runaway climate change, do not have this capability.

However, enough stress can cause civilization to collapse, as it's rather more fragile. Little things we take for granted like infrastructure, a highly specialized economy, and law and order can fall apart in the event of a nuclear war.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#53
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only Russia had stayed away, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. I’ll say this for the US, at least when they invade they admit it; thy royally fuck it up, but they admit it.

Let me just add this for the records because you added to your initial comment while I replied, I am from East Germany and am surly happy that the Soviet Union fell apart. But I am also quite skeptical and a black and white picture of the good NATO and bad Russia seems rather unlikely. During the German reunification talks it was supposedly at least suggested that the NATO would not expand eastwards and the US has a…

I respect your skepticism, and the attempt to reserve judgement in the face of uncertain, conflicting, and politically charged information.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#54
It doesn't matter what it is or does. As soon as anyone fires off a nuclear missile/device civilization ends. Some tiny remnant of people will start over, in a mostly destroyed planet. Some day their descendants will wonder what kind of complete idiot(s) would start a nuclear war.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only Russia had stayed away, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. I’ll say this for the US, at least when they invade they admit it; thy royally fuck it up, but they admit it.

Let me just add this for the records because you added to your initial comment while I replied, I am from East Germany and am surly happy that the Soviet Union fell apart. But I am also quite skeptical and a black and white picture of the good NATO and bad Russia seems rather unlikely. During the German reunification talks it was supposedly at least suggested that the NATO would not expand eastwards and the US has a…

Well, they elected Viktor Yushchenko and "someone" accidentally tried to poison him with dioxin and almost succeeded. Then somehow Viktor Yanukovych was elected, signed extremely pro-Russian legislation (after being advised by Paul Manafort, currently indicted by Mueller for his actions related to the 2016 US presidential election).

Russia would probably point to NATO encroachment in areas it considered inviolate, but honestly, they invaded free and independent neighbors and annexed them... and perhaps a bit of circumspection in that respect would have been wise.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#56
This whole thing is a scam on Putin's part. Putin claims that the US is rapidly building a huge anti-ballistic missile defense system that could stop every single present Russian warhead. And that it is doing this in preparation for invading Russia and turning it into a brutally-oppressed colony, or at least threatening Russia with nuclear destruction to get it to do all sorts of important things that would be damaging to Russia.

This is all nonsense. The US is building only a modest number of ABM missiles, and there are no plans beyond that. And the US has no interest whatsoever in invading Russia. Not even over-the-top hawks like John Bolton or the neoconservatives, even mention that idea. As far as nuclear threats to Russia, the US is content to stick with the MAD balance of terror that has kept the peace for over half a century.

So why is Putin saying these crazy things? I think it is a combination of two things. One is that he is a Russian, and so as a consequence of Russian history, he believes that the country is always under imminent threat of invasion, no matter what the facts are. The other is that, as authoritarian leaders so often do, he is trying to divert his public's attention from domestic ills that he knows he will not solve.

Does anyone want to disagree with me? Does anyone want to lay out all that would be involved in invading Russia (a review of Napoleon's attempt would be helpful here) and also in occupying it, and argue that yes, the US leadership sincerely thinks it would be a great idea, and the US leadership furthermore has good reasons to think the invasion and occupation would be successes?

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#57
post #14

How would the US react if Russia build a missile defense site in Cuba? Cuba is closer to the US border than the site in Poland to the Russian border, on the other hand Washington is further away from Cuba than Moscow from the site in Poland. Both capitals would be in range of the interceptors. I do not really know enough to judge whether Putin's statement that one could easily replace interceptors with offensive weap…

You're absolutely right. Russia should be absolutely terrified by the US abm sites because the US is planning on launching a massive nuclear missile attack that would totally destroy Russia.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#58

It doesn't matter what it is or does. As soon as anyone fires off a nuclear missile/device civilization ends. Some tiny remnant of people will start over, in a mostly destroyed planet. Some day their descendants will wonder what kind of complete idiot(s) would start a nuclear war.

Half of them would probably refuse to believe civilisation had ever been this grand or the weapons so devestating.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#59
post #2

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? I read in other media how some new American weapons can fight certain Russian tanks etc, and now I read about Putin bragging about his new weapons. My prediction for the post-Sovjet area was that the US and Russia would just leave each other in peace.

So long as Russia has territory it doesn't control inside what it views to be its natural geological boundaries, there will always be Russian aggression. Russia very much wants to "never get involved in a land war in Asia." To that end, it wants a solid mountain boundary from the Carpathians to the Tien Shan, and the Gobi desert from there to the Pacific. Until then, you can expect continued encroachments on Ukraine,…

>So long as Russia has territory it doesn't control inside what it views to be its natural geological boundaries, there will always be Russian aggression.

Quite true. The problem is that in order to gain the territory, it takes aggressive actions that provoke the very hostility it fears.

Russia's basic problem is it thinks we are still in the pre-nuclear era where great powers regularly invaded each other, and the pre-industrial era where that was the main road to economic wealth.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#60
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA deployed troops in Kyїv (Kiev) and started war against Ukrainians at Donbass, so Russian Federation invaded Ukraine to protect Ukrainians from USA troops. Go to Russian news site and read The Truth. J

That sounds rather implausible, too. I have some weak memories of - at least officially - training missions or something along that line but I can not even tell when this was in relation to other events.

It is «The Truth» from Russian Federation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efcDkTyyZtQ

You will not believe in that for the first 20 years or so, of course.

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