Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile • Hacker News Board

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#31

Post by bitL » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

aluhut wrote: post #3

s3nnyy wrote: post #2

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? I read in other media how some new American weapons can fight certain Russian tanks etc, and now I read about Putin bragging about his new weapons. My prediction for the post-Sovjet area was that the US and Russia would just leave each other in peace.

Remember Bushs Missile Defense Shield in East Europe? Either the cold war never ended or it's not the cold war anymore. I'd say it's the second. The superpower game never ended but even with the sanctions, trade, travel and politics are not that locked. On the other hand there are those 2.0 war technologies like drones, trolls, cyber warfare...

I think he wanted to use time when Russia was weak and disorganized to contain it. I was thinking that better would have been incorporating Russia to EU back then, but that's not something strong EU countries wanted (being outnumbered by Russians in EU governance) - historically Russia was always trying to become a part of Europe and Europe was always looking at those attempts nervously. I guess now that game is over, Russia seems to have decided it is no longer meaningful to aspire becoming a part of Europe and they will rather go with China, even if they really don't like each other that much. I don't think this is going to end well and we will see some major conflicts.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#32

Post by jwtadvice » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

s3nnyy wrote: post #2

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? I read in other media how some new American weapons can fight certain Russian tanks etc, and now I read about Putin bragging about his new weapons. My prediction for the post-Sovjet area was that the US and Russia would just leave each other in peace.

The post-Soviet era is and was not the end of history. Geopolitical competition exists as a human condition.

Much of the "communist versus capitalist" competition that "justified" the Cold War, was actually just a result of two powers that were going to compete anyway pushing competing views of global economic-political organization.

The competition was not itself about economic philosophies. Rather competition of economic philosophies was the result of conflict.

The United States today is a waning power relative to the rest of the world. However, it's still the de facto superpower.

The American strategy is to keep its foot on Russia's neck and while containing the possible rise of China's power (seeking to keep it to a regional, rather than global setting).

Yes, the Cold War is still going. There's less of a chance of an immediate nuclear exchange, but the US and Russia continue proxy warfare (e.g. Syria, Ukraine, Iran) and propaganda warfare (e.g. US and Russia's interference in one another's elections)

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#33

Post by rdiddly » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:58 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #12

s3nnyy wrote: post #2

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? I read in other media how some new American weapons can fight certain Russian tanks etc, and now I read about Putin bragging about his new weapons. My prediction for the post-Sovjet area was that the US and Russia would just leave each other in peace.

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? Yes. Russia wants their empire back. They've already taken back a piece of Georgia, Crimea, and a piece of Ukraine.

What a tidy explanation. It might surprise you to learn the US destabilized Ukraine in the first place, when the Ukrainian president put the brakes on their joining NATO and it looked as though they might instead join CSTO, the Russian version. This is all documented.

Also Crimea IS the piece of Ukraine.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#34

Post by dqpb » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #13

s3nnyy wrote: post #2

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? I read in other media how some new American weapons can fight certain Russian tanks etc, and now I read about Putin bragging about his new weapons. My prediction for the post-Sovjet area was that the US and Russia would just leave each other in peace.

> Is there seriously some new cold war going on? Yes, since the late 90s. Hillary Clinton's whole “reset button” thing in 2009 was about reversing the escalation in that cold war associated with the Russian invasion of Georgia. > My prediction for the post-Sovjet area was that the US and Russia would just leave each other in peace. That prediction was proven wrong less than a decade into the post-Soviet era.

This is where everything went wrong - they incorrectly labeled the button. The English text said "reset" but the Russian text said "overload" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_reset

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#35

Post by ridewinter » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #30

ende wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military-industrial complex will certainly leverage any international conflict it can in order to expand its existence - and I wouldn’t put it past nefarious activities - but some underlying geopolitical conditions must exist to exasperate conflict and in the case of Russia that its natural aggressive and expansionary nature towards its neighbors. There countries naturally turn to defensive collectives such as NA…

Honestly, I find the American propensity to blame Russia for its actions in Crimea to be of the most blatant hypocrisy one can imagine. Russia has better arguments for defending its naval bases in Crimea from Ukraine hostility, than America has for .. Iraq .. Afghanistan .. Libya .. and so on. Do Americans just not see their own hypocrisy on this issue? Russia didn't invade and destroy entire nation(s) (PLURAL) in or…

> Tell me again: when was the last time Russia established full operational, offensive bases within 30 km's of the borders of the USA with any of its clients and their military?

When was the last time the USA threatened Canada and Mexico with annihilation?

Did terrorists based in the Ukraine fly hijacked airplanes into Moscow's skyscrapers? Because that's why the USA invaded Afghanistan.

Iraq however was unjustified. The difference is that more than half of America admits it and thus freely elected a new President from a different party. Match that one Russia.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#36

Post by danbruc » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #17

s3nnyy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "How would the US react if Russia build a missile defense site in Cuba?" I think that was the trigger for the Cuba crises?

No, you’re mixing up missile defense and missile silo/launch site.

While this is absolutely true in this case, one should not ignore the fact that an interceptor can be just as big a missile as an ICBM and they can even have nuclear warheads to blow up incoming missiles. There are of course really important differences, but those things are powerful weapons on their own and one should not think of a missile defense site as a harmless thing firing little rockets towards incoming reentry vehicles.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#37

Post by fuckyouzilla » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

rdiddly wrote: post #33

Animats wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? Yes. Russia wants their empire back. They've already taken back a piece of Georgia, Crimea, and a piece of Ukraine.

What a tidy explanation. It might surprise you to learn the US destabilized Ukraine in the first place, when the Ukrainian president put the brakes on their joining NATO and it looked as though they might instead join CSTO, the Russian version. This is all documented. Also Crimea IS the piece of Ukraine.

> Also Crimea IS the piece of Ukraine.

Was.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#38

Post by da02 » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #30

ende wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military-industrial complex will certainly leverage any international conflict it can in order to expand its existence - and I wouldn’t put it past nefarious activities - but some underlying geopolitical conditions must exist to exasperate conflict and in the case of Russia that its natural aggressive and expansionary nature towards its neighbors. There countries naturally turn to defensive collectives such as NA…

Honestly, I find the American propensity to blame Russia for its actions in Crimea to be of the most blatant hypocrisy one can imagine. Russia has better arguments for defending its naval bases in Crimea from Ukraine hostility, than America has for .. Iraq .. Afghanistan .. Libya .. and so on. Do Americans just not see their own hypocrisy on this issue? Russia didn't invade and destroy entire nation(s) (PLURAL) in or…

I also suspect the US supported Neo-NAZIs in the Ukraine. Both Congress and the Obama Administration approved this, but only when Trump got elected and hurt the feelings of women, LGBT and various minorities did Americans get angry:

* https://www.stpete4peace.org/Ukraine * https://www.thenation.com/article/congress-has-removed-a-ban...

The problems in mass shootings is a problem, but no one ever wants to ban military weapons from the US military and its PMCs that have killed lots of innocent people in the name of "liberation". Russia has a GDP similar to Mexico, yet the US spends $1 trillion to build the F-35 and Americans cheer because somehow China & Russia will gang up and takeover the world. Plus, you have the Phds and graduates who think we need to fight wars to maintain our standard of living. As if Saddam & Iran would refuse to sell the US oil because they want to keep it and drink it.

One of the things people overlooked, was Osama was getting to be a pain on the Taliban factions. They were willing to give up Osama if the Bush administration could provide evidence. But, the Bush & Neocons wanted to use a war in the Middle East as an excuse to carry out policies: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.te...

I know it's hard to believe, but look at the 9/11 hijackers: They were mostly Saudi and planned the attacks in Germany and Florida, and had financial connections to factions within the Saudi royal government: https://28pages.org/2016/07/20/selected-revelations-from-the...

The US has given weapons to Mexican gangs: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/26360-congr...

And during the Clinton years, Mexico received a bailout... because most of the debt belonged to US politically connected big banks like Citigroup & others. Canada is now going to buy the F-35, so that would explain why the US doesn't really have problems with its neighbors: as long as they give US banks and military contractors money, the US won't interfere with them.

However, when a South American country decides to buy other than US-debt & weapons, it forments revolutions and installs dictators: https://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/10-of-the-Most-Le...

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#39

Post by refurb » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

primitur wrote: post #30

ende wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military-industrial complex will certainly leverage any international conflict it can in order to expand its existence - and I wouldn’t put it past nefarious activities - but some underlying geopolitical conditions must exist to exasperate conflict and in the case of Russia that its natural aggressive and expansionary nature towards its neighbors. There countries naturally turn to defensive collectives such as NA…

Honestly, I find the American propensity to blame Russia for its actions in Crimea to be of the most blatant hypocrisy one can imagine. Russia has better arguments for defending its naval bases in Crimea from Ukraine hostility, than America has for .. Iraq .. Afghanistan .. Libya .. and so on. Do Americans just not see their own hypocrisy on this issue? Russia didn't invade and destroy entire nation(s) (PLURAL) in or…

Russia was threatened by the Ukraine? Really?

That's like the US invading Canada and saying "if we didn't do it Canada could have threatened our existence!".

It's a ridiculous statement.

Re: Putin's Hypersonic Weapon Appears to Be a Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile

#40

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

rdiddly wrote: post #33

Animats wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there seriously some new cold war going on? Yes. Russia wants their empire back. They've already taken back a piece of Georgia, Crimea, and a piece of Ukraine.

What a tidy explanation. It might surprise you to learn the US destabilized Ukraine in the first place, when the Ukrainian president put the brakes on their joining NATO and it looked as though they might instead join CSTO, the Russian version. This is all documented. Also Crimea IS the piece of Ukraine.

[deleted]