Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#41

Post by CO-VAX » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

I just donated $100 to PGLAF because they are fighting the good fight. Their donation page [0] includes "Think of this as a contribution to your grandchildren." However in this instance I think of it as a contribution against publishers (ab)using the justice system much like so-called patent trolls.

> Q: The plaintiff is S. Fischer Verlag, GmbH. Is that the international conglomerate?

> A: Yes, it is part of a family of companies all under single ownership and control or majority stakeholdership, from Germany, reaching around the world. S. Fischer Verlag, GmbH is a unit of Verlagsgruppe Georg Holtzbrinck GmbH. Internationally it is known in the US and elsewhere as Holtzbrinck Publishers LLC. Readers in the US know this as Macmillan, which is one of the largest publishers in the US by revenue, and owns many familiar imprints. US readers might also recall that Macmillan was one of four companies accused by the US Dept. of Justice in 2012 of price fixing. The companies eventually settled the antitrust claims, including by giving credits to customers who had overpaid for eBooks.

[0] https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Project_Gutenberg_N...

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#42

Post by cheschire » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

Merem wrote: post #34

cheschire wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only block the books themselves, not the index pages. Attempting to view any book will result in a block message.

Works fine for me for all books I tested. Can you name some specific ones which are blocked for you?

The top ten of the top 100 list are all blocked, as well as many random books in several random languages.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#43

Post by quasarj » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

jaakl wrote: post #32

> PGLAF is entirely in the US PGLAF has awesome mission, but that base assumption is not really correct. With publishing content in Germany (or whatever country) over Internet (or otherwise) they have crossed physical and legal borders. You must obey local laws everywhere and US laws are legal in their soil only. The attitude that US laws are something globally applicable and Internet is something above local laws is…

Wooah careful there buddy, using the word "revenge" is not legal in my jurisdiction, and you just published it here by placing it on the internet!

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#44

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

ballenf wrote: post #9

weinzierl wrote: post #2

> PGLAF complied with the Court's order on February 28, 2018 by blocking all access to www.gutenberg.org and sub-pages to all of Germany. I can access www.gutenberg.org and sub-pages just fine from Germany. So the block doesn't seem to be active at the moment. > Q: Why didn't Project Gutenberg simply remove the items? > A: The is no reason to remove them. The 18 eBooks are all in the public domain in the US, and have…

The link addresses just that: > The decision to acceed to the German Court's order to make items inaccessible from Germany is intended to be a temporary appeasement, while the appeal occurs - this is because the German appeal Court will likely look disfavorably on PGLAF if it shows contempt for the German Court.

Well, no crap sherlock

I don't see why Project Gutenberg thinks it isn't subject to German law. And yes, it sucks and it is against the spirit of the internet.

But it's either them being sued or ISPs being ordered to block the website.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#45

Post by panarky » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

> The Court in Germany has promoted a theory that it has jurisdiction, mainly because the www.gutenberg.org site has some content in the German language.

Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg was a German citizen, certainly any site that takes his name submits to German laws!

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#46

Post by freeflight » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

cheschire wrote: post #16

dsacco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, thanks. I wonder if the block was more localized then all of Germany, if it was simply misconfigured, or if they just decided to stop blocking the traffic.

They only block the books themselves, not the index pages. Attempting to view any book will result in a block message.

I'm on one of the biggest German ISPs (Deutsche Telekom) and I can access front page and books just fine.

Tried it with the HTML versions of four different books, among them "most popular" like Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and A Tale of Two Cities, they all work without issue.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#47

Post by thesimon » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

freech wrote: post #25

> mainly because the www.gutenberg.org site has some content in the German language. That's an extraordinary theory of international law. By that logic Austria and Namibia also have jurisdiction.

It's false though. The court says German law applies because German users can access the site. German language is only briefly mentioned, but not the argument of the court.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#48

Post by vortico » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

I am completely confused by how this court order even works.

I am assuming that PGLAF is owned and operated in the US. "PGLAF has no actual presence or activity in Germany".

I suppose the Berne Convention allows US police to honor international court orders for copyright violation, but what's to stop a country from making a ridiculous law that extends the copyright length to 2100 years, creating court orders for the 1 billion people who own a Bible or other old text without paying license fees, and collecting all the money in the world?

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#49

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

nshoo wrote: post #29

This might be helpful. When I got randomly blocked for 24 hours (in the US), recently, some of the mirrors still worked. You can find them here: https://www.gutenberg.org/MIRRORS.ALL I’d be interested to see if they work in this case.

[deleted]

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#50

Post by netsharc » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #5

Can someone in Germany confirm this block is actually in place? In any case, if anyone in Germany would like to access Project Gutenberg, I maintain a full, daily updated mirror here: https://mirrors.sorengard.com/gutenberg . I also support FTP and Rsync if you’d like to download that way. No donations are asked for, but it would be helpful if more people hosted mirrors for precisely this reason :). Unfortunately thi…

Based on how media companies sue German torrent sharers (it's a cash cow for the law firms, like the one that is involved here, Waldorf Frommer), they sue individuals for making copyrighted content available on the internet -- because when you're torrenting something other people can get the completed parts from your computer, so if you run a mirror which is accessible from Germany, you will probably get a letter from the above law firm.