Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

news.ycombinator.com

41–50 of 53 posts

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#41
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see the solution in my head as a picture, not words. Maybe I need to practice framing problems more.

That's interesting, and actually quite encouraging: it suggests that you do think in terms of abstractions of the problem you're trying to solve, which is arguably the most fundamental skill in programming. If your difficulty is that you haven't got the mechanical process of turning your thoughts into code down yet, that's a much easier thing to overcome. Could you share with us what books and programming languages/t…

The book I've had the most luck with is Learning To Program by Chris Pine. There's a question in the book about counting the sections of land on a standard X,Y grid map. That would be a good example of a problem that blows up my brain.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#42

You're not going to like the answer, but: Immediately. Like in the first 5 minutes. When I was seven years old. And frankly, if it didn't happen like that for you, you're pretty much screwed. Every good programmer I've ever known started doing it young and immediately just "got it". Most mediocre programmers I know followed the path you're on, learning it in a class in school, fighting to get things done, eventually…

Even though I disagree, this is a valid opinion, which is sufficiently explained that it should not be downvoted.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#43
post #33
post #3

It took me a long, long time until I became reasonably confident that most problems would eventually succumb to my programming ability. Probably almost twenty years from when I wrote my first program, or a few years after college. I can't write code on my own, though -- unless the problem is trivial and the APIs I'm using I know like the back of my hand, I need an Internet connection to do it. Part of this issue is p…

That is interesting. The experience has been almost the opposite for me. When I first started programming, it did not take me long to start "getting it", and I was very confident that there was no programming problem I could not solve. As the years went by, I've noticed that my confidence has decreased to the point where I am almost certain that there is no problem I can solve (besides the most trivial ones). Maybe I…

Absolutely not. As you gain domain knowledge you should feel exactly this way. I'd suggest that you be concerned if you didn't feel this way. When I finished highschool I thought I was pretty damn smart and had a lot of things figured out (clearly not the case). From an academic point of view as I worked towards my Ph.D. I was constantly reminded of how very little I did know. While I did learn new things day by day, my appreciation for how much I didn't know grew exponentially. In fact I think what I'm left with after the whole exercise is not a confidence in my knowledge but rather a confidence in my ability to learn, problem solve and ask questions.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#44

You're not going to like the answer, but: Immediately. Like in the first 5 minutes. When I was seven years old. And frankly, if it didn't happen like that for you, you're pretty much screwed. Every good programmer I've ever known started doing it young and immediately just "got it". Most mediocre programmers I know followed the path you're on, learning it in a class in school, fighting to get things done, eventually…

Umm, if you think you're "getting" programming the first moment you let your fingers have a go at it, then you're definitely not getting it.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#45
post #24

You're not going to like the answer, but: Immediately. Like in the first 5 minutes. When I was seven years old. And frankly, if it didn't happen like that for you, you're pretty much screwed. Every good programmer I've ever known started doing it young and immediately just "got it". Most mediocre programmers I know followed the path you're on, learning it in a class in school, fighting to get things done, eventually…

Try not to feel bad about it. It's just about the way your brain is wired. No. I spent an entire summer staring at C and getting blocked on ridiculous basic stuff because I had dumb learning techniques and kept being too ambitious. I know a solid guy who did first-year C three times before he passed. What got me through was learning to break problems up into tiny pieces, practicing and learning patterns, and ignoring…

Tools like Parasoft C/C++ Test can assist you here. http://www.parasoft.com/jsp/solutions/cpp_solution.jsp?itemI...

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#46
post #3

It took me a long, long time until I became reasonably confident that most problems would eventually succumb to my programming ability. Probably almost twenty years from when I wrote my first program, or a few years after college. I can't write code on my own, though -- unless the problem is trivial and the APIs I'm using I know like the back of my hand, I need an Internet connection to do it. Part of this issue is p…

I'm the same way about needing an internet connection- or at the very least a nice thick book referencing the APIs. I'm sure if you use the same API everyday the reference wouldn't be necessary, but that's not true of most of the stuff I do.

It be interesting to see what the numbers are of people who need to be connected versus people who code in solitude.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#47
I found programming a slow, grueling task until I had an ephiphany one day--it's like learning any other [spoken] language. Now, I don't know if you're particularly adept at picking up foreign languages, but the moment I realized programming itself was the new language, I began viewing programming languages through the lens of learning a new grammar or syntax or vocabulary, and everything opened up for me. This was the same way things went with learning a foreign language--once I understood that I was still just expressing myself verbally, saying the same thoughts, it was only a matter of vocabulary, grammar, and syntax.

Since then, I have picked up new languages that interest me far more rapidly. I don't focus on how it compares to any other language I know or use. I don't focus on it from the perspective of how classes and functions differ. I look at any new programming language from a grammatical and syntactic view--and once I have read enough code & documentation to understand its grammar and syntax, I can start coding productively. That's the point I begin studying classes, functions, built-ins, libraries--the grammar and vocabulary of implementation.

I am by no means an expert programmer. I'd never call myself that. But I do find that many would be better programmers if they understood the "language" of programming. Learn as much as you can stand about data structures & types. This is core--especially types. I have so often been frustrated by inherited code that didn't show a solid understanding of data types (e.g., strings, ints, arrays, etc.). Learn about classes, functions, inheritance, etc. These are the building blocks of language, if you'll permit extending the analogy--it's a bit like knowing how to structure a sentence, capitalize, punctuate, etc. Learn the language of programming before you ever try to learn a programming language. This is, perhaps, what you're missing. You're using a programming language to understand programming. Take a step back and understand programming itself first. Then sit back down with your language and do programming.

Regardless of chosen language, the task is the same and the result should (usually) be the same. The chosen language is really just an implementation detail. You can write a program in Ruby, Python, C, PHP, etc., and it's still going to be the same program. Most programmers, I believe, tend to choose the grammar & syntax they like best. But the job of programming remains the same.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#48
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try not to feel bad about it. It's just about the way your brain is wired. No. I spent an entire summer staring at C and getting blocked on ridiculous basic stuff because I had dumb learning techniques and kept being too ambitious. I know a solid guy who did first-year C three times before he passed. What got me through was learning to break problems up into tiny pieces, practicing and learning patterns, and ignoring…

I spent an entire summer staring at C and getting blocked on ridiculous basic stuff because I had dumb learning techniques and kept being too ambitious. I know a solid guy who did first-year C three times before he passed. Sounds like we're just using different definitions for "good". You seem to define it as meaning competent, so yes, you and your friend fall into the category of people who have successfully taught…

There's no magic wiring there - humans don't speak computer out of the womb. Some people start programming at a younger age than others. Some move on, some stick, some take it more seriously, some go on to become great.

It's like any other thing really. Football, Soccer, Jiujitsu, Ping-Pong, etc.

Re: Ask HN: When does programming start to make sense?

#49
post #43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting. The experience has been almost the opposite for me. When I first started programming, it did not take me long to start "getting it", and I was very confident that there was no programming problem I could not solve. As the years went by, I've noticed that my confidence has decreased to the point where I am almost certain that there is no problem I can solve (besides the most trivial ones). Maybe I…

Absolutely not. As you gain domain knowledge you should feel exactly this way. I'd suggest that you be concerned if you didn't feel this way. When I finished highschool I thought I was pretty damn smart and had a lot of things figured out (clearly not the case). From an academic point of view as I worked towards my Ph.D. I was constantly reminded of how very little I did know. While I did learn new things day by day,…

"Universities are repositories of learning because students enter knowing everything, and leave knowing nothing."
Post reply on HN