Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game • Hacker News Board

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#111

Post by fragsworth » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 12:52 AM UTC

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #107

fragsworth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Have you ever considered taking action against the lawyers representing the trolls? Most likely they are working on a contingency basis and will keep 1/3 of whatever the trolls can extract from you. It's likely that their friends, family and the people in their community have no idea they engage in these activities. I have heard of defendants using PR campaigns effectively in these cases. Oftentimes a potential $10k…

I already named them and dumped the documents, and stated facts. I worry that doing anything to proactively impact their lives in a bad way could be used against us in a trial, because they could highlight it to paint a pretty bad picture, making us look really bad in front of a jury. We haven't done anything like that yet.

It doesn't matter that they started it or that we are in the right. If you ruin someone's life, it looks bad even if you had a good reason to do it.

They're the ones ruining our lives right now. I think a court will also see it this way. I think that helps us get them to walk away.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#112

Post by oh_sigh » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 12:53 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #33

viraptor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're still selling to the US, I don't think this would protect you. Your product can be banned anyway.

Your product could be banned, but the sue-er would never collect any money. So, if the sue-er is a patent troll, why would they bother? They don't care about banning competition. They'd burn a lot of money on lawyers for zero income. That's not a fight that they want to pick.

Okay, they ban you, you lose all the US revenue. Then, other companies see that they may get banned as well and lose their revenue, so they give in.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#113

Post by bitexploder » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 12:55 AM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #103

Lasher wrote: post #83

I passed this on to a friend of mine who has been doing virtual currency in online games since the mid 1990s (MUDs) and has been called as an expert witness in the past to defeat some of these "virtual currency" patents.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Look up Diku MUD family. I used to hack on a population CircleMUD derivative many many years ago. We had virtual currency...people regularly bought and traded items for gold.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#114

Post by mmihaly » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:00 AM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #103

Lasher wrote: post #83

I passed this on to a friend of mine who has been doing virtual currency in online games since the mid 1990s (MUDs) and has been called as an expert witness in the past to defeat some of these "virtual currency" patents.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Yeah. I'm the friend he mentioned. Achaea.com was the first game in the world to use virtual currency/goods as its business model, back in 1997. Still live today. My company's at ironrealms.com. I mailed you offering help.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#115

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:05 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #81

zaroth wrote: post #54

This patent is absurd... selling credits was invented about a day after the concept of money itself. Accounting for those credits in a database was done by the fucking Egyptians. What the heck does this patent actually teach ? It teaches absolutely nothing. It goes on for pages describing technology that already existed at the time and for decades prior to 2000. It’s a disgrace and an embarrassment.

I think credits actually pre-date currency.

[deleted]

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#116

Post by lostcolony » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

mmihaly wrote: post #114

fragsworth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Yeah. I'm the friend he mentioned. Achaea.com was the first game in the world to use virtual currency/goods as its business model, back in 1997. Still live today. My company's at ironrealms.com. I mailed you offering help.

Holy crap. Blast from the past. Thanks so much for making those games; I killed years in high school on Achaea.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#117

Post by mmihaly » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:19 AM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #116

mmihaly wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I'm the friend he mentioned. Achaea.com was the first game in the world to use virtual currency/goods as its business model, back in 1997. Still live today. My company's at ironrealms.com. I mailed you offering help.

Holy crap. Blast from the past. Thanks so much for making those games; I killed years in high school on Achaea.

Glad to hear it!

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#118

Post by stale2002 » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:23 AM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #103

Lasher wrote: post #83

I passed this on to a friend of mine who has been doing virtual currency in online games since the mid 1990s (MUDs) and has been called as an expert witness in the past to defeat some of these "virtual currency" patents.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

One I just remembered from a decade or 2 ago: Realm of the Mad God.

Its a browser based 16 bit mmo, and used the free to play, micro transactions model way before it was popular.

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#119

Post by brokensegue » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

gowld wrote: post #88

fludlight wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How the fuck is this approved by the patent office? Someone with a clue please go work at the USPTO and improve the situation. They're hiring: https://www.usajobs.gov/Search?l=&l=&a=CM56&p=1&smin=17840&s...

Working for USPTO doesn't help. You'd have to go be the director of the USPTO

More like a legislator or judge

Re: Patent trolls are shaking us down for selling “rubies” in our game

#120

Post by fragsworth » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

mmihaly wrote: post #114

fragsworth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Developer of Clicker Heroes here. More examples of prior art are very helpful, so that would help us out a lot. Do you have any examples of any of these MUDs that had virtual currency?

Yeah. I'm the friend he mentioned. Achaea.com was the first game in the world to use virtual currency/goods as its business model, back in 1997. Still live today. My company's at ironrealms.com. I mailed you offering help.

Wow. I actually remember playing your game when I was 17. I can't remember details about the virtual currency though.

The '838 patent was filed in 2000 (which is the effective date, 2007 is just the processing date). Did Achaea have virtual currency before then? If so, that would help us a lot.