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China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

nytimes.com

11–20 of 106 posts

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#11
post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

When profits come up against morality, profits will win every time. How do you think we even got to this situation in the first place?

[deleted]

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's too late. Bill Clinton sold them enough tech in the 90s in exchange for defense contractor kickbacks that now China has passed the US in military technology. China has too much influence and money on too many US campuses and has students demanding repeal of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, which will help continue the growth of Chinese power. Xi Jinping is explicit in his goal to bring democracy to an e…

>>1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments I have been befuddled by the behavior of young people on these axis for the last 10 years. This observation you’ve made is super seductive... but I think the more likely reason we are in this mess is that the younger gens are foundationally devoid of skepticism. I applaud your creativity though. It definitely could be a contributing factor.

I knew lots of Chinese students in college. And I can tell you with quite a bit of certainty that most were far too busy studying to go out and organize or participate in political protest.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#13

Australia is deeply involved in this. China are actively trying to control conversation with Chinese students and immigrants here. The govt has literally bought all Chinese language press and semi regularly run full page 'articles' in the major press. They have been caught out several time pressuring universities and placing disruptive people in lectures that discuss areas they don't want. I believed agents recently…

Sources?

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#14

Australia is deeply involved in this. China are actively trying to control conversation with Chinese students and immigrants here. The govt has literally bought all Chinese language press and semi regularly run full page 'articles' in the major press. They have been caught out several time pressuring universities and placing disruptive people in lectures that discuss areas they don't want. I believed agents recently…

See: https://www.ft.com/content/7ac14e70-ded8-11e7-a8a4-0a1e63a52...

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#15
This is rather biased against China. OK, so Chinese authorities have arrested citizens who have posted "illegal" material. I don't see that they've grabbed citizens of other countries off the streets, which the US and Israel have done. Or pressed other countries to extradite their citizens based on criminal allegations, which the US commonly does.

And about takedown requests to Google etc. MPAA and other "rights holders" do this frequently. Indeed, the US government uses DNS poisoning to censor sites that it considers illegal. Or requests that other countries raid hosting services, and impound servers. Has China done that?

Anyway, just sayin'. I do believe that everything should be takedown-proof, for what it's worth.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#16
post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

I think it's too late. Bill Clinton sold them enough tech in the 90s in exchange for defense contractor kickbacks that now China has passed the US in military technology. China has too much influence and money on too many US campuses and has students demanding repeal of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, which will help continue the growth of Chinese power. Xi Jinping is explicit in his goal to bring democracy to an e…

At least they sold us some cheap crap.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#17
Facebook suspended Mr. Guo’s account. In a statement, the company said the account published the personal information of others without their consent, which violated the platform’s policies.

Zuckerberg wants to be in China in such a bad way. He's learned Mandarin, plays up his family connections (via his wife's family), and puts on the charm when visiting China. He's created relationships with officials at every level. His representatives have talked with companies which may be partners or acquired at some point.

It does not surprise me one bit that Facebook will bend over backwards to accommodate officials on censorship demands. This is the cost of doing business in China for a tech company. Media companies learned this decades ago - read up on how Rupert Murdoch was able to operate there, it's quite fascinating.

Now it's Silicon Valley's turn, especially companies that specialize in communication -- social networks, phone manufacturers, companies that sell networking hardware, etc. The Chinese government's survival depends on information control, and if they can't do it themselves, then they force local and foreign companies to do it for them.

Don't think that this issue will be limited to human rights activists. It doesn't matter who you are -- your social media comments, family relationships, WeChat and Facebook messages, work connections on LinkedIn, and other digital footprints that reflect your attitude or influence will be used to build a social media score that determines your level of access to the country and ability to do business in China.

The scary prospect is that other countries will do the same thing ... if they haven't done so already.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#18

Australia is deeply involved in this. China are actively trying to control conversation with Chinese students and immigrants here. The govt has literally bought all Chinese language press and semi regularly run full page 'articles' in the major press. They have been caught out several time pressuring universities and placing disruptive people in lectures that discuss areas they don't want. I believed agents recently…

Sources?

Yeah, some of that sounds way too far-fetched.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#19

Australia is deeply involved in this. China are actively trying to control conversation with Chinese students and immigrants here. The govt has literally bought all Chinese language press and semi regularly run full page 'articles' in the major press. They have been caught out several time pressuring universities and placing disruptive people in lectures that discuss areas they don't want. I believed agents recently…

The Canadian federal government seems to have been compromised as well, there is significant amounts of serious financial and drug crimes occurring in Canada that is very clearly disproportionately (to put it nicely) associated with immigrants from mainland China, newspapers are regularly reporting on it, there are anecdotal stories all over the place, but there's no "evidence" because law enforcement will not touch them, and the Canada Revenue Agency will not audit them. It is obvious something very unusual is going on behind the scenes.

I'd love to know what sorts of things are going on in Africa.

It's nice to see the mainstream finally starting to wake up from their long slumber though, perhaps there's hope yet.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#20
post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

I think it's too late. Bill Clinton sold them enough tech in the 90s in exchange for defense contractor kickbacks that now China has passed the US in military technology. China has too much influence and money on too many US campuses and has students demanding repeal of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, which will help continue the growth of Chinese power. Xi Jinping is explicit in his goal to bring democracy to an e…

"China has passed the US in military technology" [citation needed]
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