Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction' • Hacker News Board

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#71

Post by SEJeff » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

powercf wrote: post #21

radagast wrote: post #7

This has been discussed for as long as I remember myself (am 30 now). First it was the influence of english in TV (we only dub childrens shows and movies). I came unscattered from my youth and really doubt that my children won't be as good or better at icelandic than me. Everyone has learned icelandic, basic danish and advanced english at age 16. From the age 16-20 majority of kids add a fourth language which is eith…

My problem is that, as time goes by, English use will become more common, and Icelandic less. The spread of the English language (e.g. the children in the article who '“know what the word is” for something they are being shown on the flashcard, but not in Icelandic.') is accompanied by the spread of US culture (TV, film, music). While US culture isn't neccessarily better or worse than any other, I get a lot of enjoym…

You know that the English language doesn't originate in America, right? Equating the spread of English as a step in the Americanization of the world (to me) is a bit silly.

I can reword your statement to use Spanish and Peru. It sounds just as weird:

    I see the spread of the Spanish language a step in the Peruvianization of the world, which is a shame.

In America, we speak all kinds of languages, of which English is the most common.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#72

Post by raverbashing » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

personlurking wrote: post #38

cal5k wrote: post #13

Just got back from Iceland! (I'm Canadian) Outside of the touristy parts of Reykjavik, everybody will assume you speak Icelandic until you respond in English. Then they'll switch to almost perfect English, with remarkably few exceptions. It was pretty amazing. In small towns like Akureryi, there's a lot of local pressure to keep signs mostly in Icelandic. I was actually surprised by this since there were a lot of Eng…

On the flip side, trying to learn the language of the country you’re in when everyone speaks fluent English kind of sucks exactly because everyone will just switch to English instead of let you practice. I suppose that’s the rub: to a local, when they notice you speaking (or, rather, trying to speak) a foreign language in a their country, are you struggling or trying to practice?

In that aspect it is slightly annoying, still, there's a lot of written information that you don't have people translating for you, and you then can use it when referencing something written

(But then again Google Translate now has World Lens built in - so that helps)

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#73

Post by smnrchrds » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:50 PM UTC

cal5k wrote: post #13

Just got back from Iceland! (I'm Canadian) Outside of the touristy parts of Reykjavik, everybody will assume you speak Icelandic until you respond in English. Then they'll switch to almost perfect English, with remarkably few exceptions. It was pretty amazing. In small towns like Akureryi, there's a lot of local pressure to keep signs mostly in Icelandic. I was actually surprised by this since there were a lot of Eng…

> Outside of the touristy parts of Reykjavik, everybody will assume you speak Icelandic until you respond in English.

I am curious, does this apply to everyone or only European-looking people?

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#74

Post by ardfie » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:54 PM UTC

SEJeff wrote: post #71

powercf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is that, as time goes by, English use will become more common, and Icelandic less. The spread of the English language (e.g. the children in the article who '“know what the word is” for something they are being shown on the flashcard, but not in Icelandic.') is accompanied by the spread of US culture (TV, film, music). While US culture isn't neccessarily better or worse than any other, I get a lot of enjoym…

You know that the English language doesn't originate in America, right? Equating the spread of English as a step in the Americanization of the world (to me) is a bit silly. I can reword your statement to use Spanish and Peru. It sounds just as weird: I see the spread of the Spanish language a step in the Peruvianization of the world, which is a shame. In America, we speak all kinds of languages, of which English is t…

The United States is the biggest exporter of English-language media. In other English speaking countries American terms and idioms are increasingly common.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#75

Post by kuschku » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:54 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #67

kuschku wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the worst part is that with the removal of the language barrier, people also all start to consume the same media. And that means US culture starts to affect more and more people. Already today people that primarily watch english media have significantly different views on driving children to school, or social safety than those who watch primarily media in the local language, even correcting for age, gender, educa…

What is preventing Europe from creating media that reflect their culture and exporting it to the world? If Europe could create music, movies, etc. that are more popular than the offerings from the US then... problem solved?

Simply said, economics. This is a winner-takes-all problem, nothing short of banning US media and forcing creation of a local media industry will be able to do that.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#76

Post by remir » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

I wonder what will happen to languages and culture when we will eventually be able to transmit direct thoughts to another person using brain implants or other tech. Imagine being able to communicate without any possibility of misunderstanding. The idea you have in mind is the exact idea the other person receives.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#77

Post by CamelCaseName » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

SEJeff wrote: post #71

powercf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is that, as time goes by, English use will become more common, and Icelandic less. The spread of the English language (e.g. the children in the article who '“know what the word is” for something they are being shown on the flashcard, but not in Icelandic.') is accompanied by the spread of US culture (TV, film, music). While US culture isn't neccessarily better or worse than any other, I get a lot of enjoym…

You know that the English language doesn't originate in America, right? Equating the spread of English as a step in the Americanization of the world (to me) is a bit silly. I can reword your statement to use Spanish and Peru. It sounds just as weird: I see the spread of the Spanish language a step in the Peruvianization of the world, which is a shame. In America, we speak all kinds of languages, of which English is t…

America is influenced by the Spanish language, but that is because it imports Mexican culture, not Peruvian.

Iceland (I assume) imports far more American culture than British. They simply dominate many forms of art (TV, movies, games). So while you are right that America is not the birthplace of English, English is the medium in which American culture spreads.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#78

Post by wil421 » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

remir wrote: post #76

I wonder what will happen to languages and culture when we will eventually be able to transmit direct thoughts to another person using brain implants or other tech. Imagine being able to communicate without any possibility of misunderstanding. The idea you have in mind is the exact idea the other person receives.

I don’t think it works that way. My thoughts are in English. I’ve asked bilingual people about their dreams and thoughts. Most of them say it can be both languages usually depending on where they are.

If you mean transfer a feeling then I’d agree it’s possible. Like happy, sad, angry etc.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#79

Post by adventured » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

SEJeff wrote: post #71

powercf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is that, as time goes by, English use will become more common, and Icelandic less. The spread of the English language (e.g. the children in the article who '“know what the word is” for something they are being shown on the flashcard, but not in Icelandic.') is accompanied by the spread of US culture (TV, film, music). While US culture isn't neccessarily better or worse than any other, I get a lot of enjoym…

You know that the English language doesn't originate in America, right? Equating the spread of English as a step in the Americanization of the world (to me) is a bit silly. I can reword your statement to use Spanish and Peru. It sounds just as weird: I see the spread of the Spanish language a step in the Peruvianization of the world, which is a shame. In America, we speak all kinds of languages, of which English is t…

American cultural projection and economic success in the 20th century is overwhelmingly responsible for spreading the English language to so many corners of the globe. The British Empire collapsed and retracted back to the UK. Britain's global cultural projection is a small fraction of the US today. If eg Britain were the primary driver of English since WW2, as the first major sponsors of the language, you'd more likely see a contraction in English in line with the contraction of the British Empire and their cultural + economic reach. Instead English has continued to spread.

People in China haven't been aggressively learning English the last ~30 years primarily so they can do business with New Zealand. English become the global language of commerce because the US took over nearly half of the global economy, and over half of its manufacturing, immediately after WW2.

It's pretty simple: the British started that fire, then their empire declined. The US picked up their torch and made the fire a lot bigger with the wide-spread globalization we see today coinciding with the US becoming the sole superpower post WW2 (ie produced a perfect storm for English spreading globally).

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#80

Post by thefounder » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 8:01 PM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #73

cal5k wrote: post #13

Just got back from Iceland! (I'm Canadian) Outside of the touristy parts of Reykjavik, everybody will assume you speak Icelandic until you respond in English. Then they'll switch to almost perfect English, with remarkably few exceptions. It was pretty amazing. In small towns like Akureryi, there's a lot of local pressure to keep signs mostly in Icelandic. I was actually surprised by this since there were a lot of Eng…

> Outside of the touristy parts of Reykjavik, everybody will assume you speak Icelandic until you respond in English. I am curious, does this apply to everyone or only European-looking people?

What do you think?