Live data from Hacker News

Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

theguardian.com

251–260 of 273 posts

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#251
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

The SkyTrain in Vancouver, Canada does not have drivers. It has been in service since it was built for the 1986 World Expo. Autonomous trains are not nearly as widespread as they could be, but this is not for technical reasons - it is for political reasons.

If that had to drive down a busy street it wouldn't be driverless.

The way it's configured it's basically an elevator.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#252
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal drivers. Prices might be higher than in the US but it's hard to give an exact price or even a range because it varies a lot by vehicle type. I'm paying about 600€/year for a small and older VW. But a bigger car doesn't necessarily need to be more expensive because the parts to repair it could be cheaper or it's less likely to get into expensive accidents due to break assistance. I'm also covered for accident…

I’m paying about $1700/year for $1m coverage for two newer sedans with a combined value of about $40k. You can’t buy more coverage than that in the US without going to an insurance agent. It’s available but as a specialty product aimed at wealthy people. Most car insurance websites won’t quote coverage that exceeds $300k or $500k. The legal minimum, which is what many (most?) people have is like $60k. I’m sure some o…

This is putting some stuff Uber did in Germany into perspective.

When Uber Pop launched in Germany insurance companies were quick to publicly state that no driver using Uber is insured under their personal policies and they needed to opt into commercial policies that are multiple times more expensive.

Then Uber stepped forward and put out a big anouncemnt that every driver is insured for up to 1 million €. Everybody was like "yeah, okay, that's not nearly enough to be allowed to drive here in Germany". Nobody understood why Uber would make such a dumb statement. Now that you explained how it's handled in the US, I'm not surprised anymore.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the idea behind it for the passenger. Remember there’s another person on every side of your Uber transaction, who might have recently bought a car but would not have otherwise.

Yes, but to spell out the obvious: There are a lot more passengers than drivers. This should result in fewer personally owned cars in total.

How many people have you met who had a car but really gave it up to Uber everywhere? Maybe in large cities like SF or NY but for the vast majority of Americans Uber and Lyft supplement their car usage rather than replacing it.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#254
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only middle class professionals have "a career" and therefore deserve to have enough money to live on, don't you know. It's the primary reason we don't need a minimum wage - working in the service industry or any other relatively unskilled work isn't "a career" so it doesn't matter if it only pays 2 bucks an hour, so goes the reasoning because nobody should be expecting to do it for long or make a life out of it. It'…

If teachers can’t be expected to support their family off their income, why should someone doing something that can be crowd sourced as a side gig? Just because I can make $15 tying peoples shoes doesn’t mean that I’m entitled to support a family off of it.

>> If teachers can’t be expected to support their family off their income,

Why the f*ck should teachers not be paid enough to support themselves and have a life? Wow.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#255
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m paying about $1700/year for $1m coverage for two newer sedans with a combined value of about $40k. You can’t buy more coverage than that in the US without going to an insurance agent. It’s available but as a specialty product aimed at wealthy people. Most car insurance websites won’t quote coverage that exceeds $300k or $500k. The legal minimum, which is what many (most?) people have is like $60k. I’m sure some o…

This is putting some stuff Uber did in Germany into perspective. When Uber Pop launched in Germany insurance companies were quick to publicly state that no driver using Uber is insured under their personal policies and they needed to opt into commercial policies that are multiple times more expensive. Then Uber stepped forward and put out a big anouncemnt that every driver is insured for up to 1 million €. Everybody…

Have a look here: https://www.thebalance.com/understanding-minimum-car-insuran...

People are recommended to have more than the minimum if they own a home, or otherwise have a lot of assets to protect.

Commercial requirements are much higher.

It works different in the states because the person or property being injured also has insurance, which will cover them. Insurance covers you not the person or property being injured.

So if you smash a building with your car, the property owner will collect from their insurance. That insurance company will then sue you, and your insurance will cover you. If you don't have enough insurance, they'll take what they can get, and if you don't have any property or money, they'll give up after that.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#256
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure? I personally know people doing it as their primary income in a top 5 us city in pop. It's a grind.

Doesn't your question prove the GP's point?

Not really, they've been trying to get a different job that entire time without success.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#257
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that I used a hypothetical methodology. That's because -- and this is the real problem -- finding the flaw in a specific methodology is a lot of work. It's often not just one thing that throws the numbers off by 200%, it's one thing that throws them off by 12%, then another by 7%, and twenty other little things that add and multiply up to an inaccurate overall conclusion. It can take multiple hours to…

Do other transportation jobs count transportation expenses against the wage? If not, then that is an excellent point. I would assume taxiing, food delivery, etc. would count them.

When I delivered pizzas (2006; Pizza Hut; Alabama) there was a small additional consideration for gas and wear and tear on my vehicle. As I recall it was around 1/6th to 1/10th of the the ~$6 an hour wage I was otherwise making.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#258
post #58
post #12

That seems too low. Most drivers I use have been doing it for years. They wouldn't at those rates.

The recent internal Uber study found that long-term drivers learn how to optimize their rides for the highest fares. So there are significant differences between what the median driver makes and what the "pro" Uber drivers make.

This is the concern I hear from policy makers. If Uber/Lyft drivers are "optimizing" their rides and only seeking out the most profitable routes and areas, then cities no longer have a egalitarian transportation system.

Need a ride and you're in an obscure part of town? Welp too bad.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link you posted only analyzes the relationship after 1980. It also doesn't compare multiple sources of inequality. That's not evidence for "union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s" Here's another study (that actually cites the one you linked) covering the same time period and shows multiple other factors having greater impact. https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1513…

No it absolutely doesn't. "Technological progress and the resulting rise in the skill premium (positives for growth and productivity) and the decline of some labor market institutions have contributed to inequality in both advanced economies and EMDCs. " Emphasis mine. That ^^^ was literally the first reason given in the article. The second point it makes is about the role policy-making plays, which of course is prob…

It's true that a decrease in labor power has probably contributed to rising inequality. That's not what you stated though; "It's a factor" and "it's the most important factor" are separate points. If you read the study I linked, you'll see that in advanced economies globalization and the skill premium have had roughly the same or larger impact as changes in labor institutions (which is a much bigger category than just "union power"). Regardless, both studies only show effects after 1980, not before.

> The second point it makes is about the role policy-making plays, which of course is probably as important, but is intimately connected to the presence or absence of union power because who the hell do you think lobbies for those policies?

Organized labor frequently advocate for policies that benefit their members at the expense of non-members (for example, licensing requirements) with ambiguous or detrimental affects on inequality. You use the example of minimum wage, but that's an ambiguous example too; we have some evidence that a high minimum wage actually decreases total low wage worker earnings[1], but a small increase (at least in the US) would probably be beneficial. To quote from the study I linked earlier

"Stronger labor market institutions could increase unemployment rates, reduce the wage differential between high skill and low-skill workers, and affect the labor share of income. The overall impact on income inequality, however, can be ambiguous: they increase unemployment, which tends to raise inequality, they can reduce wage dispersion, which tends to lower it, and they increase the wage share, which can have an ambiguous effect on inequality"

To be clear, it might be true that a decrease in labor power would be associated with policy that increases inequality but that's a non-obvious conclusion.

[1] https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER%20Working%20Pa...

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the idea behind it for the passenger. Remember there’s another person on every side of your Uber transaction, who might have recently bought a car but would not have otherwise.

Yes, but to spell out the obvious: There are a lot more passengers than drivers. This should result in fewer personally owned cars in total.

Uber is just a taxi company. You can hardly expect car makers to hate taxis or carpooling.
Post reply on HN