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UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

dailybruin.com

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Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#11

Post by jakear »

ecshafer wrote: post #8

Who is the author that makes them an authority on this? I couldn't find much, but it looks like they are just a student or journalist that writes opinion pieces. Shouldn't the professors designing the courses have much more say than someone that does not appear to be an expert?

It's an opinion piece in the student newspaper. So it's just a student saying "this is how I feel".

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#12

Post by jakear »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #9
bradleyjg wrote: post #5

I’m quite surprised they are still using c++. I thought most schools switched to java by or in the first half of the oughts.

What does it even mean for a school to 'switch' languages? When I did my bachelors it was straight up a new language in each class, at the discretion of the prof in charge. Intro class homework was in Java, data structures was in C++, operating systems was in C, digital logic design was in Verilog, bioinformatics was in Python, ...

Right, and if the professor of the intro class decided they didn't want to teach Java, and would prefer C++, they'd "switch" over to it... I don't see the confusion. C++ isn't the only language in the entire school, this is all about one intro class.

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#13

Post by tomtheelder »

CS50, the intro CS course at Harvard, which is notably a large and successful MOOC in addition, is taught in C. It's a really bizarre choice, and only serves to add complexity to a topic that already has a fairly high cognitive barrier to entry.

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#14

Post by grigjd3 »

There is a lot that is factually wrong with this article. Python is not easier because it is an interpreted language. C++ is interpreted too. In fact, python does compile, hence the pyc files. I could go on like this for a while but the point is, the author doesn't know what he or she is talking about. That doesn't mean python shouldn't be used, but that this article fails to make the argument.

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#15

Post by ISL »

piemonkey wrote: post #3

I would like to point out before this discussion moves too far along that UCLA does in fact have an introductory programming course which is taught using Python: http://web.cs.ucla.edu/classes/enroll/97/ Students that are unfamiliar with programming are encouraged to take this course before the C++ course.

CS 97 is even mentioned in the article, but perhaps the C++ course is required for graduation, while 97 might not satisfy that requirement?

Unclear from afar...

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#16

Post by jackconnor »

brian_herman wrote: post #4

I think fundamentals of programming should be more emphasized not the language itself.

This is all that CS has ever been, and is the reason they're teaching in C++ in the first place (it's a low-level language good for learning fundamentals), which is fine. But a huge part of CS students graduate without knowing how to code in languages that are reflected in the jobs they are trying to get, which are mostly python, javascript, and java. If you think the industry is fine, great, but if you agree with those that think CS degrees should emphasize job skills a little bit, then teaching courses in Python is a good move.

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#17

Post by zelos »

on lower-level implementation details related to how machines interpret code – knowledge that non-computer science students are unlikely to use after they graduate.

Yeah, the world really needs a load more developers with no idea how computers work. We don't see any of those in interviews already.

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#18

Post by vvanders »

andrewmutz wrote: post #6

It makes a lot of sense for non-CS students to be able to learn CS using Python. For CS students, there's a good argument for starting with the fundamentals and adding abstractions later. It's not the only way to learn it, but if the CS department wants to start there for CS students, that's reasonable.

+1, back when I was considering attending the UC system the fact that Java was taught almost exclusively pretty much removed them from my list. We had UCSD students coming to my local community college to take the C course I was in since it wasn't being taught at UDSD. It always shocked me considering they had a pretty awesome super-computer lab.

Ironically I spend about 90% of my time in Java code. That said understanding the fundamentals is super-valuable when root-causing JNI issues or trying to speed up the VM in cases where normal Java approaches don't cut it.

Re: UCLA introductory programming classes should focus more on Python, not C++

#19

Post by wccrawford »

ISL wrote: post #15
piemonkey wrote: post #3

I would like to point out before this discussion moves too far along that UCLA does in fact have an introductory programming course which is taught using Python: http://web.cs.ucla.edu/classes/enroll/97/ Students that are unfamiliar with programming are encouraged to take this course before the C++ course.

CS 97 is even mentioned in the article, but perhaps the C++ course is required for graduation, while 97 might not satisfy that requirement? Unclear from afar...

piemonkey said that they're encourage to take the Python one first, meaning they still have to take the C++ course as well. The Python one is optional and intended for those who are having trouble jumping straight into C++.
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