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Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

newyorker.com

21–30 of 256 posts

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#21
Everyone has a story like this.

I went in for a physical and even though they said to my face my insurance would fully cover a heart electrocardiogram (my family has a history of heart problems) I wound up with a huge bill, month long fight with insurance, and ended up just having to foot it.

Maybe if medical care was driven by some other force besides capitalism this wouldn't be such an issue.

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#22
post #11
post #4

It sounds like in the "free market healthcare" system hospitals are incentivized to get the patient to spend as much as possible. That's aside from other bad incentives of such a system such as hospitals not wanting to be transparent with their prices, insurance companies not wanting to take patients with pre-existing conditions, also wanting to cover as few conditions as possible, Big Pharma being incentivized to as…

You have the wrong idea. A better example of what you're calling "free market" would be dentistry or something like Lasik surgery. You can shop around and figure out the prices because they are very much apparent since you pay out of pocket for the majority of the former and completely for the later. Would Medicaid/Medicare be "free market"? Why bother shopping around when someone else picks up the tab? Insurance com…

The underlying philosophy of mandating coverage for pre-existing conditions is the idea that everyone should be able to have basic medical care. With that idea it's really not that tricky to say pre-existing conditions should be covered.

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#23
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah lets get rid of laws and regulations, that will fix health care prices!!! /s

It actually would. No need for sarcasm on that comment.

I'm not sure it would. Given the information asymmetries involved, how does it avoid the "market for lemons" problem?

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#25
post #6

This article makes it sound like medical costs in the US could be halved if everyone understood this problem, and did their own research on proposed procedures.

Patients in other countries don’t do their own medical research, yet most countries do have half (or less) the medical costs per capita compared to the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#26
It's a question of fundamental incentives. Doctors and hospitals are paid for procedures, treatments, and appointments. Is it any surprise that there's incentive to undertake these activities? You don't even need to believe that your doctor is greedy to understand that if there's a borderline case, they might order the test or treatment "to be safe", or "because there's no downside", or because "we have the available capacity". Even if they aren't explicitly considering payment as part of the equation, it's not unreasonable to think that subconsciously the monetary incentive will tip some of these cases in the direction of overtreatment.

IMO, the only way this is going to change is a movement away from the "pay for services" model that is dominant in US healthcare today.

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#27
post #5

Sounds like another one of those "this is what happens when money (as opposed to patient wellbeing) becomes a driving factor in health care." I remember I tried to find a PCP once and I showed up for my intake appointment and the young, rushed doctor said they wouldn't enroll me as an official member unless I had two intake visits. They were gaming the insurance system.

> I showed up for my intake appointment and the young, rushed doctor said they wouldn't enroll me as an official member "Intake appointment"? "Official member"? What kind of system is this?

Sounds like a typical American family doctor's office?

All of them in my area have long waiting lists. You don't just show up at the front door like it's an auto mechanic's shop, you call to schedule your annual physical. They're typically booked solid for a few months in advance. Calling to book an appointment requires being a registered patient or member of that office.

If you want to change your primary care physician, you call around and see which offices are accepting new members. If they are, they'll get your medical records transferred and set you up for an intake appointment where they check to make sure that they know your status, and then you are able to schedule future visits.

You certainly don't just call any convenient office and expect to get an appointment in the next couple days, that would be anarchy.

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#28
post #11
post #4

It sounds like in the "free market healthcare" system hospitals are incentivized to get the patient to spend as much as possible. That's aside from other bad incentives of such a system such as hospitals not wanting to be transparent with their prices, insurance companies not wanting to take patients with pre-existing conditions, also wanting to cover as few conditions as possible, Big Pharma being incentivized to as…

You have the wrong idea. A better example of what you're calling "free market" would be dentistry or something like Lasik surgery. You can shop around and figure out the prices because they are very much apparent since you pay out of pocket for the majority of the former and completely for the later. Would Medicaid/Medicare be "free market"? Why bother shopping around when someone else picks up the tab? Insurance com…

I recently read this great article about this:

http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#29
The article pins part of its argument on the claim that advances in diagnostics have not changed the death rate for (e.g.) breast cancer during the past quarter century, but a superficial search immediately suggests this to be grossly false.

"Death rates from female breast cancer dropped 39% from 1989 to 2015." - all other things being equal, it ought to have increased: age is a risk factor for cancers, and we have an older population. Instead, it has greatly decreased.

So I dispute the veracity of several of the article's claims, but also: what is considered unnecessary changes with the benefit of hindsight.

I would argue that it's expected that a majority of diagnostic tests deliver a negative result (i.e. turn out to be "unnecessary"), and this is actually a mark of a healthy healthcare system.

Re: Unnecessary medical care is harming patients physically and financially (2015)

#30
post #26

It's a question of fundamental incentives. Doctors and hospitals are paid for procedures, treatments, and appointments. Is it any surprise that there's incentive to undertake these activities? You don't even need to believe that your doctor is greedy to understand that if there's a borderline case, they might order the test or treatment "to be safe", or "because there's no downside", or because "we have the available…

I slightly disagree - what's missing is price transparency inviting competition. Through competition the payment and cost side of things will be added to the equation and shift incentives to cut waste and increase quality of service. That includes all aspects of the healthcare services.
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