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Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

theguardian.com

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Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#201

Post by gambiting »

xauronx wrote: post #194
Nursie wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only middle class professionals have "a career" and therefore deserve to have enough money to live on, don't you know. It's the primary reason we don't need a minimum wage - working in the service industry or any other relatively unskilled work isn't "a career" so it doesn't matter if it only pays 2 bucks an hour, so goes the reasoning because nobody should be expecting to do it for long or make a life out of it. It'…

If teachers can’t be expected to support their family off their income, why should someone doing something that can be crowd sourced as a side gig? Just because I can make $15 tying peoples shoes doesn’t mean that I’m entitled to support a family off of it.

Because it is in your(society) interest that people can support themselves and their families with just one job. Otherwise you end up spending more on benefits and support not to mention on all the problems that come with chronic unemployment.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#202

Post by crdoconnor »

MarkMc wrote: post #101
Steeeve wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

Subway trains carry hundreds of people, so the cost of the driver for each passenger is low. Also, subway systems are monopolies with strong drivers' unions. Subway managers have no strong financial incentive to reduce costs because the taxpayer foots the bill. In contrast, if Uber doesn't produce a driverless taxi service soon its management will be fired and will miss out on billions of dollars in bonuses. I think…

Automation on subway trains is almost never about saving costs - even well paid drivers make up a very small percentage of the operational costs of a subway. The vast majority goes on maintenance.

In most cases the costs imposed by a wave of city-crippling strikes will far outstrip the minor cost gains from automating the rail line, so it only makes sense to actually automate and fire the drivers if the goal is actually political.

Subway drivers comprise a strong component of a country's labor power (because of their power to shut down critical infrastructure) and the alliances they typically hold with other unions and their political donations cement that. They don't just offset the power of the government they work under, they offset the power of executive/shareholder power in general.

Since labor and union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s, the political goal behind crushing them is pretty clearly about increasing the wealth and income inequality chasm still further.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#203

Post by grandmczeb »

crdoconnor wrote: post #202
MarkMc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subway trains carry hundreds of people, so the cost of the driver for each passenger is low. Also, subway systems are monopolies with strong drivers' unions. Subway managers have no strong financial incentive to reduce costs because the taxpayer foots the bill. In contrast, if Uber doesn't produce a driverless taxi service soon its management will be fired and will miss out on billions of dollars in bonuses. I think…

Automation on subway trains is almost never about saving costs - even well paid drivers make up a very small percentage of the operational costs of a subway. The vast majority goes on maintenance. In most cases the costs imposed by a wave of city-crippling strikes will far outstrip the minor cost gains from automating the rail line, so it only makes sense to actually automate and fire the drivers if the goal is actua…

> union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s

Would love to see actual evidence that this is true.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#204

Post by lsc »

gaius wrote: post #199
lsc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MBAs are different from engineering degrees in that while a MBA from a top school is super valuable, a MBA from a so-so school is, as far as I can tell, worth very little. Keep in mind that one-year MBAs from disreputable schools are often advertised to working people. I mean, you do learn things; my understanding is that it's sort of a 'survey degree' that gives you a shallow treatment of a lot of different business…

The entire point of the MBA is the networking opportunities and joining the alumni club. The content can be got for a fraction of the cost, or even free. The success of the top MBAs is therefore self-perpetuating. And there is literally no point in doing one outside of the top maybe 20 schools, because there is no one there or in the alumni network who can give you a foothold.

I think you are being too absolute.

There is some value to the content, even though I totally agree that the contacts are dramatically more valuable than the content if you go to a good school.

Personally, I find that finding management and business content on my own is actually harder than finding Engineering content on my own; management and business training is full of tony robins style confidence men, and it's difficult, for me at least, to sort out what is actually worthwhile. For that matter, just an overview of what sort of professional to hire in what situation would be nice. (For instance, if you are just looking for tax help and don't plan on selling the company, an 'Enrolled Agent' is actually better than a 'CPA' though the two certifications are of similar difficulty; the EA focuses on dealing with the IRS, while the CPA has more of a focus on the accounting you would need if you are selling your company or something.)

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#205

Post by crdoconnor »

grandmczeb wrote: post #203
crdoconnor wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automation on subway trains is almost never about saving costs - even well paid drivers make up a very small percentage of the operational costs of a subway. The vast majority goes on maintenance. In most cases the costs imposed by a wave of city-crippling strikes will far outstrip the minor cost gains from automating the rail line, so it only makes sense to actually automate and fire the drivers if the goal is actua…

> union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s Would love to see actual evidence that this is true.

Here it is

https://voxeu.org/article/union-power-and-inequality

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#206

Post by johannes1234321 »

DanielDent wrote: post #110
Steeeve wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

The SkyTrain in Vancouver, Canada does not have drivers. It has been in service since it was built for the 1986 World Expo. Autonomous trains are not nearly as widespread as they could be, but this is not for technical reasons - it is for political reasons.

One of the reasons is that the driver also doubles as emergency person. With autonomous systems one has to have staff ready to reach each section of the tracks quickly to lead evacuation from a tunnel in case of fire etc. A driver is trained to do so.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#207

Post by Bromskloss »

gambiting wrote: post #169
visarga wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question would have made sense 10-20 years ago.

No, I'm still confused. What is the problem with being a taxi driver for life and expecting a good wage?

> and expecting a good wage

Wait, you added that part just now.

I don't see why you couldn't drive a taxi for a living (though I don't know if that is all that was meant by "career"), but taking for granted that you will be paid well seems off.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#208

Post by Bromskloss »

mattmanser wrote: post #190
CaptainZapp wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I never really got. The fact that self driving cars will be the savior for Uber. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the concept is viable in urban areas within 5 years and Uber puts a massive fleet of self driving vehicles on the road. While it's certainly true that they wouldn't have to pay drivers it would be a massive shift in capital investment. The "genius" of Uber is shifting the necessary…

Also, where does Uber store all the cars outside of peak times? So it has to buy parking. What happens when they break down? Servicing. How often do they have to replace their fleet? $3 billion every 5 years.

> Also, where does Uber store all the cars outside of peak times?

> So it has to buy parking.

Rent parking spaces in people's driveways! :-)

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#209

Post by grandmczeb »

crdoconnor wrote: post #205
grandmczeb wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s Would love to see actual evidence that this is true.

Here it is https://voxeu.org/article/union-power-and-inequality

The link you posted only analyzes the relationship after 1980. It also doesn't compare multiple sources of inequality. That's not evidence for "union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s"

Here's another study (that actually cites the one you linked) covering the same time period and shows multiple other factors having greater impact. https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1513.pdf

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#210

Post by crdoconnor »

grandmczeb wrote: post #209
crdoconnor wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here it is https://voxeu.org/article/union-power-and-inequality

The link you posted only analyzes the relationship after 1980. It also doesn't compare multiple sources of inequality. That's not evidence for "union power is largely what held income inequality in check until the 80s" Here's another study (that actually cites the one you linked) covering the same time period and shows multiple other factors having greater impact. https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1513…

No it absolutely doesn't.

"Technological progress and the resulting rise in the skill premium (positives for growth and productivity) and the decline of some labor market institutions have contributed to inequality in both advanced economies and EMDCs."

Emphasis mine.

That ^^^ was literally the first reason given in the article.

The second point it makes is about the role policy-making plays, which of course is probably as important, but is intimately connected to the presence or absence of union power because who the hell do you think lobbies for those policies?

Institutional support (donations, political support, control of voting blocs, policy research, etc.) behind those policies (e.g. raise minimum wage) comes from unions whereas the policies do the opposite (e.g. lower minimum wage) come from business lobbies and high net worth individuals - who have opposing interests.

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