Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 273 posts

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#141

Post by prostoalex »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #129
foobarian wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Taxicabs such as in NYC are famously expensive to buy into, and yet drivers somehow afford it and make livings on them. So if they are clearly not losing money, why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficient due to use of computers can't make a profit? Are the tech overheads really that high?

Taxicabs such as in NYC are (were) monopolies. The price you paid was far above what the market rate should have been, which is why drivers were able to make livings on them. Uber/Lyft are simply forcing prices back down to the market rate which is where the prices should be in a free market. Driving isn't really something that should be a career. > "Why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficien…

Yeah, but the taxi driver had to finance both his/her medallion and the car, which in most cases would not double as a personal car for everyday errands (as somebody else would drive it during their shift). Those costs have been driven down as well.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#142

Post by pesfandiar »

UncleEntity wrote: post #99
foobarian wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Taxicabs such as in NYC are famously expensive to buy into, and yet drivers somehow afford it and make livings on them. So if they are clearly not losing money, why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficient due to use of computers can't make a profit? Are the tech overheads really that high?

My theory is they are attempting to put the competition out of business by running at a loss then adjust the rates to where they can make money which, coincidentally, will be be almost exactly the amounts the "evil" taxi companies were charging. I could be totally wrong but if I were a betting man...

That's still a win for consumers, because they certainly raised the bar for customer experience. They run leaner than old-fashioned cab companies and can keep prices lower at the end too.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#143

Post by DrScump »

jachee wrote: post #131
giancarlostoro wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only when you're at fault?

If the other party is at fault, their insurance should cover their liability for your damages.

... if they have valid insurance and if they don't flee the scene.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#144

Post by prostoalex »

maxharris wrote: post #59
astrodust wrote: post #2

Uber is losing billions and their drivers are making peanuts. That sounds sustainable.

It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/technology/driverless-car... This is similar to how the huge army of people stuffing DVDs into envelopes at Netflix is going away. It might be slow, but I don't think there will be tons of people watching DVDs from them in 2030... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/netflix-dvd-business-still-a...

The driverless revolution (whenever it takes place) seems to favor fleet management companies, not dispatch companies.

It lowers the barrier for entry to pretty much anybody, with fleet manager taking care of car washes, interior clean-ups, refueling, parking at idle hours, ongoing maintenance and fixing occasional flat tires.

What part of Uber/Lyft business model makes them more sustainable when compared to Hertz, Avis, Budget, Alamo, Dollar, Fox Rent-a-car, ZipCar, Tesla Driving Network, any local car dealer with excess inventory, Ford- or Mercedes- or any other maker-branded service, or a small mom-and-pop operation with just a couple vehicles in their fleet?

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#145

Post by paulcole »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #130
foepys wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. In Germany the lowest legally possible coverage is 7.5 million € for damages to a person plus 1.22 million for other damages, but 50 to 100 million is the general coverage. Just to give some perspective on how expensive accidents can be.

That sounds insane, even with American medical prices. How much are insurance premiums in Germany? I just don't see how anyone could cause that much damage with their vehicle.

That’s what Steve Wynn said about his elbow!

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#146

Post by seanmcdirmid »

DanielDent wrote: post #110
Steeeve wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

The SkyTrain in Vancouver, Canada does not have drivers. It has been in service since it was built for the 1986 World Expo. Autonomous trains are not nearly as widespread as they could be, but this is not for technical reasons - it is for political reasons.

Pretty sure one of the Boston subway lines is autonomous (from the airport?), along with a smattering of subway lines around the world.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#147

Post by seanmcdirmid »

seibelj wrote: post #15
staticassertion wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw one yesterday. There was a driver but like... come one, decades?

When driverless cars are common on midwestern highways every night, they will start moving into complex urban areas. We are very far from cars navigating downtown NYC, Seattle, SF, Boston, etc.

Pretty sure driverless cars are being tested in almost all of those cities already.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#148

Post by felixk42 »

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-delive...

I have always thought Uber drivers are either mispricing their vehicle cost, or doing some sort of tax optimisation.

If you have a nice car that you only drive a little bit on the weekend, so that most of the cost is in the fixed stuff (age based depreciation (a 5 years old Porsche with 0 mile is still 5 years old), insurance, parking etc), and the tax man let you allocate cost based on miles driven (I am not based in the US), then Uberring where you "try to get business" by driving up and down a highway would be great.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#150

Post by TangoTrotFox »

Clanan wrote: post #106
davebryand wrote: post #52

I question the authenticity of the $3.37 number when I see that the paper this article references was published by an organization funded by these bodies: Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, BP, ClearPath Foundation, Conoco Phillips, Duke Energy, Electricité de France, EnBW, ENGIE, ENI, Eversource, Exelon Corporation, ExxonMobil, Gas Natural Fenosa, GE, Golden Spread Electric Cooperative, Inc., Iberdrola, IHI Corpo…

Instead of giving in to a gut reaction, you should read the paper. All research must get funding in one way or another. If you exclude research due to funding sources and potential conflicts of interest, you wouldn't be left with much.

How exactly would you suggest people read the paper? The article linked to a brief [1] which says literally absolutely nothing about how they conjured up their numbers. And the paper itself is here [2]. It's rather worse than a paywall. Instead the paper is restricted to their "sponsors" until an embargo of up to 6 months.

This sort of behavior should not instill confidence in the paper's conclusions. And I think it was completely reckless of the Guardian to run an eye catching headline with absolutely 0 justification given to the numbers other than an implicit appeal to authority by calling it an MIT paper. Though such is the state of the media today.

[1] - http://ceepr.mit.edu/files/papers/2018-005-Brief.pdf

[2] - http://ceepr.mit.edu/publications/working-papers/681

Post reply on HN