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Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

theguardian.com

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Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#101

Post by MarkMc »

Steeeve wrote: post #70
maxharris wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/technology/driverless-car... This is similar to how the huge army of people stuffing DVDs into envelopes at Netflix is going away. It might be slow, but I don't think there will be tons of people watching DVDs from them in 2030... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/netflix-dvd-business-still-a...

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

Subway trains carry hundreds of people, so the cost of the driver for each passenger is low.

Also, subway systems are monopolies with strong drivers' unions. Subway managers have no strong financial incentive to reduce costs because the taxpayer foots the bill. In contrast, if Uber doesn't produce a driverless taxi service soon its management will be fired and will miss out on billions of dollars in bonuses.

I think we'll see driverless public taxis in Phoenix before we see driverless subway trains in New York. Self-driving trains are technically easier to develop, but self-driving cars will win thanks to the efficiencies of the free market.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#102

Post by aianus »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #7

Any Uber drivers want to chime in?

I drove for Uber part-time last year in Canada and made less than $3 an hour on paper at tax time.

However, this is highly misleading simply because I was able to deduct fixed "business expenses" that I would have spent anyways to own a car. Insurance, parking, licensing, registration, and finance interest, were all things that I would have spent anyways in the exact same amounts even if I only drove the car for personal use.

In addition, cars are considered to depreciate 30% every year by the CRA (Canadian IRS). This is obviously nonsense; cars depreciate based on kms driven and I did not drive nearly enough kms to reach 30%. So this is not a real expense either, but one I can deduct nonetheless.

So, really, I was subsidizing my expensive car ownership tax-free. The real rate after adjusting for those fake "expenses" was around minimum wage which is fair considering it's a better job than flipping burgers.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#104

Post by aianus »

pzxc wrote: post #75
tony101 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Uber and Lyft have insurance policies that cover drivers and passengers during rides, and in most cases the maximum coverage per accident is $1 million. https://www.uber.com/drive/insurance/ https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013080548-Insuran...

However, the insurance provided by Uber and Lyft only cover when you have a passenger in the car -- they don't cover you when you are driving to pick up the next person. And your own insurance also doesn't cover you during that period, unless you buy a separate commercial rider.

Both of these statements are false, at least here in Canada. My insurance knows exactly what I'm doing and I'm covered at all times [0]

[0] https://www.intact.ca/on/en/personal-insurance/vehicle/car/u...

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#105

Post by [deleted] »

astrodust wrote: post #66
maxharris wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/technology/driverless-car... This is similar to how the huge army of people stuffing DVDs into envelopes at Netflix is going away. It might be slow, but I don't think there will be tons of people watching DVDs from them in 2030... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/netflix-dvd-business-still-a...

I hope you realize that ripping DVDs and putting them up for streaming is pretty easy, everyone was doing it before Netflix was, compared to having a fleet of autonomous vehicles that can safely operate in a multitude of urban environments, something nobody has ever done before. You have to question the leadership of a company that's willing to throw untold billions and counting on a long-shot bet that they'll eventu…

[deleted]

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#106

Post by Clanan »

davebryand wrote: post #52

I question the authenticity of the $3.37 number when I see that the paper this article references was published by an organization funded by these bodies: Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, BP, ClearPath Foundation, Conoco Phillips, Duke Energy, Electricité de France, EnBW, ENGIE, ENI, Eversource, Exelon Corporation, ExxonMobil, Gas Natural Fenosa, GE, Golden Spread Electric Cooperative, Inc., Iberdrola, IHI Corpo…

Instead of giving in to a gut reaction, you should read the paper. All research must get funding in one way or another. If you exclude research due to funding sources and potential conflicts of interest, you wouldn't be left with much.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#108

Post by kermittd »

HNthrow22 wrote: post #95
throwaway0255 wrote: post #50

This doesn't surprise me at all and it's because of hidden costs incurred by the driver, combined with an implicit bidding system that drives down wages. Hidden costs: 1. Vehicle wear and tear (cars cost you money when you drive them) 2. Vehicle depreciation (cars cost you money even when you aren't driving them) 3. Interest and fees associated with auto loans and leases 4. Insurance premiums 5. Gas 6. Unexpected/unp…

I had a driver once mention a promotion uber was running for their drivers if you hit "X rides' in a certain time period you'd receive a $Y cash bonus - the catch was the system made it extremely difficult but not impossible to achieve the goal through subtle gamification techniques. Big picture tech/gamification has reached a point where oversight/legislation of some sort is long overdue. No restrictions + profit mo…

Yep I have heard about several similar promotions in the LA area from drivers.

A lot of drivers tell me often that as they close to hitting their number they get rides that are far away from where they are.

They then have to drive across town to pick the rider up and then drop the rider off at their destination ( which can be 15min to hours away).

The net effect is drivers rush during these promitions for quotas they usually don't hit.

Would not be surprised if Uber's algorithm started placing rides for drivers far away to avoid paying out promotions.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#109

Post by Clanan »

> Drivers earn a median of 59 cents per mile while incurring a median cost of 30 cents per mile, the report said, adding that for nearly a third of drivers, the costs are ultimately higher than the revenue.

> The paper reported the average driver profit to be $661 per month.

The posted $3.37 number is before taxes!

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#110

Post by DanielDent »

Steeeve wrote: post #70
maxharris wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/technology/driverless-car... This is similar to how the huge army of people stuffing DVDs into envelopes at Netflix is going away. It might be slow, but I don't think there will be tons of people watching DVDs from them in 2030... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/netflix-dvd-business-still-a...

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

The SkyTrain in Vancouver, Canada does not have drivers.

It has been in service since it was built for the 1986 World Expo.

Autonomous trains are not nearly as widespread as they could be, but this is not for technical reasons - it is for political reasons.

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