Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hey Gruber, what about the users?

scripting.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 50 posts

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#31

Post by silvestrov »

jonknee wrote: post #10
pistoriusp wrote: post #2

We must be using different Internet or maybe the website I browse aren't flash heavy. I cannot recall a single instance where I thought... "Damn! If only I had flash on my iPad/ iPhone."

Try browsing for a new car or clothes. For whatever reason both of those verticals are highly dependent on Flash and as such unusable on the iPad. I would have thought luxury brands would have figured out by now that iOS demographics trend affluent and should be valued. Update: Case in point... http://hugoboss.com - usable mobile site, but you can't see or buy any of the clothes! http://bananarepublic.gap.com/ - "Fla…

It seems like those sites are exactly the kind of products I prefer to look at In Real Life, and not just as pictures on a computer.

Due to broken bones which forces me to stay at home, I've bought clothes online and it has resulted in a significant number of unpleasant surprises which are trivial to avoid in a physical shop. My (Danish) experience is that the shops that provide the most useful information are the shops that avoid Flash and uses plain html pages (e.g. Amazon, smartguy.dk).

Flash-based sites almost always makes it impossible to add "I probably want to buy this" bookmarks in the browser, so a lot of items don't get bought by me. So even when the browser supports Flash, the site starts out with a significant handicap (looking at you, H&M) ... and I don't have the patience for the transition animations that most Flash developers think is a must-have.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#32

Post by avar »

jfno67 wrote: post #28
avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

The point Dave makes in the original post, is that he sees new flash content being produced, so the boycott is not working. I think it is more productive to focus on promoting html5 to make flash irrelevant.

Of course sites are still going to produce content in Flash, but nowadays they at least have to consider that by doing so they're making it impossible for an ever increasing market segment to view their content.

I ran Debian on a PPC machine a few years ago so I couldn't use Flash. Back then only very odd setups like that didn't have it. Nowadays millions of people are buying new top of the line devices that don't support it, so the tide is turning as a result.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#33

Post by nanairo »

jfno67 wrote: post #28
avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

The point Dave makes in the original post, is that he sees new flash content being produced, so the boycott is not working. I think it is more productive to focus on promoting html5 to make flash irrelevant.

I think both systems together would probably work best. Because---and here I link to the original article---the fight is far from over.

If Flash will eventually disappear it will be slowly, very slowly. Companies are reluctant to get into new technologies. Has DVD disappeared because of Blu-ray? Has Windows XP disappeared because of Windows 7? What about Internet Explorer? And it's the same outside of the tech industry too.

Some sites will be early adopters, some will be slowpokes and most will be somewhere in the middle. And in this last year we've seen a _lot_ of mindshare being gained by HTML5. For a start Youtube, Vimeo and friends. Let's remember that a couple of years ago Flash was basically had the whole market by itself.

I don't know if the iPad/iPod helped, but I do know that Flash is starting to lose its grip. And yes, of course people will still develop on Flash for many years to come, the same way some companies were still selling VHS players a couple of years ago. But the adoption is gaining steam.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#34

Post by mithaler »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #21

"My perspective is that of an iPad user. I like the damned thing. But I feel like a pawn, and I don't like that." I'm tired of seeing people complain about this. Apple has made their intentions clear from iPhone 1, day one. You are buying a read-only pass into the walled garden. If you don't like it, pick up a Galaxy Tab on VZW (arguably a better network) or wait for Motorola's dual core tablet later this year runnin…

Adding to that, by the time I clicked on the post, the comments on it were disabled.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#36

Post by sprout »

raganwald wrote: post #6

I wish Dave would read and abide by "How to Disagree." The wisecrack about Gruber's minions takes a reasonable discussion and reduces it to Fox-Newsworthy labeling and ad hominem rhetoric. People who agree with Gruber are cut from much the same cloth as people who want the choice of whether to run Flash.

It would be a great start if Gruber would read it.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#37

Post by napierzaza »

jfno67 wrote: post #28
avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

The point Dave makes in the original post, is that he sees new flash content being produced, so the boycott is not working. I think it is more productive to focus on promoting html5 to make flash irrelevant.

There's a lot of people who know flash and don't know HTML5 and not to mention HTML probably having some shortcomings.

So there's going to be stuff done in flash to appease the designs of sites. But once HTML is more mature, and people know how to use it, they're not going to do the work twice anymore.

Make no mistake, having a major platform like the iPhone/iPad is pushing that forward. It's hard to tell how or when this will turn out.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#38

Post by pohl »

napierzaza wrote: post #11

I think it's less about whether Apple has Flash and more about how Gruber deals with dissenting opinions. I've seen him do hit jobs on bloggers for their opinion and small-time indy programmers for their design with no provocation.

What qualifies as a "hit job" here? A dissenting post with a link? Isn't that what the "global conversation" on the world-wide-web is supposed to be all about?

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#39

Post by jonknee »

silvestrov wrote: post #31
jonknee wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try browsing for a new car or clothes. For whatever reason both of those verticals are highly dependent on Flash and as such unusable on the iPad. I would have thought luxury brands would have figured out by now that iOS demographics trend affluent and should be valued. Update: Case in point... http://hugoboss.com - usable mobile site, but you can't see or buy any of the clothes! http://bananarepublic.gap.com/ - "Fla…

It seems like those sites are exactly the kind of products I prefer to look at In Real Life, and not just as pictures on a computer. Due to broken bones which forces me to stay at home, I've bought clothes online and it has resulted in a significant number of unpleasant surprises which are trivial to avoid in a physical shop. My (Danish) experience is that the shops that provide the most useful information are the sh…

I typically browse online before making it to the store. If I see Hugo Boss has a nice looking new collection and I need a new suit I can then drop by the store. Maybe it's just that I don't like shopping, but I always do my research first.

Also, looking at my outfit today it was entirely bought online except for my socks and underwear. No broken bones either, I just find it convenient for clothes that don't need tailored.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#40

Post by apu »

avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

And making custom binaries for Apple products only is better?
Post reply on HN