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Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

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Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#61

The whole big 4 IT consulting industry needs to die a swift death. It's basically institutionalized corruption. Overbill the client, under deliver with shoddy products made overseas, get that vendor lock in and watch the money flow in. The cost savings are largely an illusion sold by false promises of a better world.

You are mistaken, I work for one of these. I have 12 years experience and I have only one failure to deliver and it was stopped in the design phase because it was too complex and the client wasn't ready.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#62

The whole big 4 IT consulting industry needs to die a swift death. It's basically institutionalized corruption. Overbill the client, under deliver with shoddy products made overseas, get that vendor lock in and watch the money flow in. The cost savings are largely an illusion sold by false promises of a better world.

Do some research into government contracting and you will realize that companies like Oracle are tame compared to many of the straight up scams being pulled.

You will see countless examples of companies with no assets, no employees, virtual offices, etc, pulling down multi-million contracts.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#63
The Canadian government attempted to build a gun registry, originally predicting it to cost $12M, then $85M, then $1000M, then $2000M, and then it was scrapped. While it's easy to blame vendors like IBM, I have to imagine feature-creep and "what about"-isms lead to such monstrosities.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#64

Canadian here. This has become a huge political football. People are blaming the current Liberal government, when the project was started by the Harper Conservatives. The full extent of just how fucked up it is has just now become public knowledge. It is also a political pork barrel project. > The project was meant to save costs by firing 1,200 employees handling payroll at various departments around the country and…

The way this article was written was really weasely.

> The Phoenix project was originally chosen by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Conservative predecessors

This is assigning blame to Trudeau in the weirdest way.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#65

The Canadian government attempted to build a gun registry, originally predicting it to cost $12M, then $85M, then $1000M, then $2000M, and then it was scrapped. While it's easy to blame vendors like IBM, I have to imagine feature-creep and "what about"-isms lead to such monstrosities.

quick correction, Canada still has a gun registry for handguns. In one of the several elections that they won, the Harper Conservatives campaigned on removing the long gun registry (rifles and shotguns). Which they successfully did, putting hundreds of federal employees out of work in a small town part of New Brunswick. The political outcry from these unemployed people and the economic impact sent them on a new trip back to the pork barrel, centralizing all of the Phoenix payroll system clerical operations in... you guessed it... the same small town part of New Brunswick.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#66

The Canadian government attempted to build a gun registry, originally predicting it to cost $12M, then $85M, then $1000M, then $2000M, and then it was scrapped. While it's easy to blame vendors like IBM, I have to imagine feature-creep and "what about"-isms lead to such monstrosities.

How many long guns are there in Canada anyway. Could you not use sheets.google.com? I'm serious.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#67

and that's why governments should hire software engineers that can be in the loop and understand not only the technical but the policy side. Hiring an army of contractors earning 300k/year to deliver "something" in the waterfall model is a recipe for disaster.

Unless you are the contractor making $300k

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#68

and that's why governments should hire software engineers that can be in the loop and understand not only the technical but the policy side. Hiring an army of contractors earning 300k/year to deliver "something" in the waterfall model is a recipe for disaster.

Have you actually tried what you are saying ? Because it's a nice idea just completely unrealistic. Software engineers who are not just technical but SMEs as well as having excellent skills in stakeholder engagement are incredibly rare. And most of them know how good they are and are contracting at, you guessed it, around 300k/year. Talented engineers are usually quite savvy when it comes to money. Also for most proj…

> Have you actually tried what you are saying ? Because it's a nice idea just completely unrealistic.

I've been in places where it's done. In fact, I've been involved for a long time in a public sector environment with three key systems, one of which is a central claims adjudication system, and two of which are accounting and tracking systems that interface with it, performing similar functions to each other but for two separate programs that share the adjudication system. Those three systems, for historical reasons, have three separate models:

The adjudication is state-owned (that is, the code belongs to the state) and operated, developed almost entirely by a team of contractors with some involvement by state programming staff and a state development lead and also tight integration state-staff IT team that does requirements analysis and acceptance testing and manages most of the interface with state business users.

One of the accounting/tracking systems is, and has been from the beginning, developed and maintained almost entirely in-house by state staff (and almost solely with programming staff.) Because of subsequent organizational consolidation, the state team working on this system overlaps the one working on the prior system.

The other is a vendor-maintained MOTS system, with state IT oversight.

Each has it's strengths and weaknesses, but the MOTS system is consistently the one that is the roadblock to adapting to changing business requirements, and both before and after consolidation the all-internal one was the one with the quickest best-case requirementd to delivery speed, and by far the least expensive for the value delivered.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#69
post #48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://wiki.c2.com/?WhyIsPayrollHard

That's.....amazing It almost gives the impression that an air traffic control system is actually easier (although also failed.)

Both are incredibly complex (I am a developer on an air traffic control system.) There are thousands of requirements for voice communications alone.

Re: Canada to Scrap IBM Payroll Plan Gone Awry Costing $1B

#70
New Zealand in the 90's was trying to have an integrated policing system designed by IBM which burnt a lot of money (in the order of 100 million) and was abandoned [0].

I was working with one of the companies that came along to replace one part of the system with a much smaller component that just handled that individual piece and vividly remember the meeting with the IBM team. They had no code to show me, but they handed my a massive folder - probably verging on 10cm thick of use case diagrams. So many little stick figures staring up at me I was awestruck - but not in a positive way!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INCIS

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