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How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

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Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#181

Post by seren »

tachyoff wrote: post #96
walshemj wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently puritains and others of that ilk regarded dice as instruments of the devil

Which is interesting because in the Old Testament, "casting lots" was considered an appropriate way to divine God's will [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleromancy#In_Judeo-Christian_...

This fits with the recent serie of articles about ancient dice probabilities.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/dice-evolution-fate-fa...

In summary, even if the old dice were not fair, it was not an issue because they were a manifestation of the divine.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#182

Post by rb666 »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #53

For a semester, I taught in a state prison for a prisoner educational program. Every time I went in, I was struck by how punitively petty so many of the rules and corrections officers were. The environment is carefully crafted to suck out all joy and hope from the inmates. Azkaban with its dementor guards is a pretty good illustration of an American prison. Guards are as likely to confiscate gaming materials (and pun…

This is really a thing in the USA and other 2nd-world countries. In most European countries this is very different.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#183

Post by kaybe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #92
dfee wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot relate to any of this, but the clergyman’s approach / perspective definitely seems bizarre. Gaming has much to offer, as does the social scene at a bar. Where I’ve been these two aren’t at odds. I wonder why they have been in your experiences - maybe it’s the military scene (referencing where you said mess hall).

My ex was a soldier. These guys were soldiers stationed in a foreign country. In the US, soldiers are mostly not locals and spouses have a hard time getting a job because everyone knows you will move again in two or three years. But they want your money. At our first duty station, the landlords were raising rent every three months until a General threatened to build enough on base housing to kill the local rental mar…

> the landlords were raising rent every three months

That's illegal. Maybe it wasn't back then, since I have no idea what timeframe you're talking about, but it has been for some time.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#184

Post by dogma1138 »

rb666 wrote: post #182
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #53

For a semester, I taught in a state prison for a prisoner educational program. Every time I went in, I was struck by how punitively petty so many of the rules and corrections officers were. The environment is carefully crafted to suck out all joy and hope from the inmates. Azkaban with its dementor guards is a pretty good illustration of an American prison. Guards are as likely to confiscate gaming materials (and pun…

This is really a thing in the USA and other 2nd-world countries. In most European countries this is very different.

Nordic countries maybe, French, British, German not to mention former Commie block countries prisons aren't what you think...

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#185

Post by Broken_Hippo »

sergiotapia wrote: post #124
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #53

For a semester, I taught in a state prison for a prisoner educational program. Every time I went in, I was struck by how punitively petty so many of the rules and corrections officers were. The environment is carefully crafted to suck out all joy and hope from the inmates. Azkaban with its dementor guards is a pretty good illustration of an American prison. Guards are as likely to confiscate gaming materials (and pun…

They're in jail - not a vacation.

And? People realize they are in prison by the sheer lack of freedom of self. Does that somehow mean that we need to punish them for years and years after their sentence? Do we need to give folks psychological disorders or make them suffer physically as well?

Who would you rather have as your neighbor: A person in a human prison that has had the help they need, including a push towards becoming a good neighbor - or someone that has been mistreated, tortured, and/or made to be a slave (prison labor) for what could be years, and then punished so severely when they get out that they have trouble meeting their parole duties without resorting to illegal activities?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather live next to the first. Most prisoners are future neighbors. Most are someone's family member. Wouldn't it be prudent to do what we can to make the person an upstanding member of society?

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#186

Post by kamaal »

tachyoff wrote: post #95
eximius wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire them?

Way easier to pay them like $0.15/hour in prison than the federally-mandated minimum wage. (That number might be hyperbole, but prison wages, if they even exist where you are, are abysmally, illegally low. I believe some of them are indeed sub-dollar.)

Slavery is protected by law under the 13th Amendment.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#187

Post by v_lisivka »

kibwen wrote: post #17
pesfandiar wrote: post #4

Well, they can't ban 1-bit random number generators (e.g. coins) and with a bit of time, you can simulate any of dice used in RPGs.

"With a thunderous roar, the colossal red dragon envelops the party in a cruel wave of fire! You each take 24d10 damage, but while I'm sitting here flipping this coin six hundred times please do let me know if you make your reflex save for half..."

You can flip 600 coins once instead.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#188

Post by Beltiras »

I'm fascinated by this as a problem. I had an idea how to solve it. Books are not contraband and you can pick two random words from, say the Catcher in the Rye or to name a less controversial book, the Bible and use the first letter of each one to "roll the die". Wrote a small script that tries to balance the odds given the frequency of first letters of words in the English language (odds taken from [1]). Script can be found on Gist [2]. This can of course be adapted to provide tables for common probabilities (say 3d6 for example). All of the methods the prisoners are using is "good enough". Having a table that is not accurately 5% for each number should not be a problem. It will depend on the books used as well. Sample output:

    a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h  i  j  k  l  m  n  o  p  q  r  s  t  u  v  w  x  y  z 
 a  6 15 14 16 18  4 12 16 11  5  7 13  9  3  7  1 11  9  5  2  4 16 20 13 20 20 
 b 18 13  5 16  3 13  8  5 20  1 15 18 20 20  6 12  3  9  2 15 11  3  9  1 13 14 
 c 18 10 12  6  1 18  1  1 11 11  8 15 14 20 20 19 19 17 17 19 17 10  1  4  7 10 
 d 13  6  3 10 17 15 10 12  6 15 20  2 11  1  8  3  3  7 11 19  6  3 13  2  8 17 
 e  1  4 12 19 17 12 13  6  3 15  9 14 14  9 10 11 19  4 15 10 16  3 14  4  1  9 
 f  2  2  2 14  7  5  6 13 14 14 16 12 13 13  9  2  9 12 16 11 20  1 12  5 12 20 
 g 16  8  7  5  1 18 12  8  1 13 13  8 13  2 17 10 12  1  9 11 10 13  5 18 17 12 
 h 17 13  6 13 17 16 14  1 10  5  6 19 20  1  6 16 16 10  6 12  3 13 15 19 16  6 
 i 15 12 20  3  6 12  9 17  4  7  1  9 19  9 11  7  5  5  7  9 12  6  5  1  1 10 
 j 14 12 19 11  1 12 14 12 14 10 12  8 18  4  9  4 13  4 10 13  1  1  2 14 19 14 
 k 19  1  7 17  5  4 15  9 14  5  7  3  2 12 14 20 14 15  8 12 10  8  5 19 16  3 
 l  4 15  7  7  1  4  6  6 15 15 15 15  6 15  3 17  9  6 10 15 18 13 20 16 19 20 
 m 14 19 13 14 14  5 12  5 11  5 16  7 18 10 14 16 16 19  7  4  7 16 15  2 15  9 
 n 11  6 17 15  5  2 17 13 17  8  8 10 16  2 13  6  3  9 13  4 11 19  6 17 18  7 
 o 20 13  6  3  1 20  4  7  2 12 19  9 19  2  4  2 16  4  1 10 18 15 15 14  7  2 
 p 19 19 20  3  4  6 14 18 11  1 19  3  9  7 10 14 13 14 12 17  7  4  3  2  6 15 
 q 12 20  7 15 17 20 20  2 12 20 13 11 19 14 16 12  9 17  7  4  8 10 19  5 13  4 
 r  8  2  9 14 13  2 18 19 20 18 19 10 14 11  5  7 20 14  5  1 12 11  9 19  2  9 
 s 17  1 10  4  5 18  5 13 16 15  2 17  9 18 14 12 18  9  4  8 11  9  3  6 17 16 
 t  3  5  7  7  3 13  5 14 19  3 16 15 16  9 16  1  1 17 18  8 11 17 18 16  4 18 
 u 12  5  6 17 20 16 15  6 19  5  8  5  9 14  8  7 10  2  5 14 12 16 15  8 14  5 
 v 17 16 19  4 12 10  2 16  5 13 12 17  2  7 16 15  8 11 18 10 17  4  2  7 11  4 
 w  5 11  8 20  7 13 18 17 20 20 20 11  5 13 12  4  5 13 12 10 11 17  1 11 13 12 
 x  3 10 12 10 10  2  9 13 13  3  1 12  2 14  1 14 15 12  6 19  7 18 14  6 13 12 
 y 13  6 13  8 15 19  9 17 13  7 12  3 18 10 20  6  4 14 14 12  4  8 16  4 16 12 
 z 16 18 11 12  6  7  2 15  8  5 20 13  4 16 10  9 18  9  7 17 11  5 19 13 19 19
Difference between maximum and minimum odds: 0.004783609999999994

  [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_frequency#Relative_frequencies_of_the_first_letters_of_a_word_in_the_English_language
  [2]: https://gist.github.com/arnists/d23194c4c48880979ed0993bd3ec4b7c

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#189

Post by Xylakant »

e12e wrote: post #162
DoreenMichele wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ex was a soldier. These guys were soldiers stationed in a foreign country. In the US, soldiers are mostly not locals and spouses have a hard time getting a job because everyone knows you will move again in two or three years. But they want your money. At our first duty station, the landlords were raising rent every three months until a General threatened to build enough on base housing to kill the local rental mar…

> These guys could not trust that local women were really interested in dating them for any reason other than their money or a green card. Local German women interested in a green card? Sounds unlikely.

There was a time when a green card was definitely something desirable. For some people it still is.

Marrying a soldier was a fast and surefire way to get one, so I can quite well imagine that.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#190

Post by Xylakant »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #151
John23832 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s probably the problem. Jail/prison should primarily be for reform, not pusnishment. If I punish without helping you change, I’m only telling you to not get caught next time.

Your point is valid, but I disagree about the primary purpose of prison. The primary purpose is to protect broader society by removing bad actors. If you can also reform the prisoner, then that's a bonus.

That would be inefficient unless you plan on removing bad actors permanently. That would mean life-long sentence for all, even minor, infractions. This is obviously not sustainable. The goal is to remove bad actors by re-educating them to no longer be bad actors. It's the only viable alternative. The other goal is to punish bad actors, thus bringing justice back into balance.
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