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Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

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Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#61

Post by mpfundstein »

monkeyfoop wrote: post #57
woah wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems impossible to implement true decentralized routing, so it's likely they're using some sort of hack to prioritize "masternodes" as the backbone routers instead of actual peer to peer routing. What do you mean "impossible to implement true decentralized routing"? Many examples of decentralized distance vector and link state algorithms exist. I'm not sure what they are doing but routing isn't some mystical th…

LN is DOA. Routing does not work. And it will never work. Long live Bitcoin Cash

Yeah! Like Segwit, which now already runs 30% of all transactions (source: reddit ). Ver is like Ballmer who didn’t see the iPhone coming

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#62

Post by fiiv »

While everyone else argues about wether LN is evil or great, I'll just comment on your product.

It's a nice tool, akin to the block explorers out there. One minor thing I noticed, where you define the node colour in the sidebar, sometimes if it is dark the hexcode cannot be seen.

There's a way to fix this by dynamically determining the color in javascript for example, and changing the text atop of it to white.

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#63

Post by thisisit »

I have watched couple of introductions on LN and had some questions, if someone can help:

a. What effect does this have on transaction sizing?

b. Does the the node owner charge fees for each transaction?

c. How are the channel amounts calculated? Do they include mining and node fees?

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#64

Post by hayanno »

thisisit wrote: post #63

I have watched couple of introductions on LN and had some questions, if someone can help: a. What effect does this have on transaction sizing? b. Does the the node owner charge fees for each transaction? c. How are the channel amounts calculated? Do they include mining and node fees?

a. Transaction on bitcoin's blockchain should be less than ever if everyone start using lightning.

b. The node owner do charge fees every time someone use their node : https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/68767/how-are-fe...

c. There's not mining in lightning, it's only done on blockchain. What do you mean "channel amounts" ?

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#65

Post by imtringued »

ExactoKnight wrote: post #59
zaarn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or by ruling that it is illegal to buy, sell or own bitcoin. While bitcoin might continue, most citizens will stop bothering at that point because buying or selling bitcoin shows up in tax audits. The government can also make it illegal to operate a bitcoin node or transmit bitcoin transactions, including for ISPs, which would get the protocol quickly blocked. Additionally they could rule Bitcoin to be an illegal for…

You will have a drug war on your hands, only way harder to enforce thanks to encryption. It's a losing game, and I think you forget that there are way too many rich people in positions of power who like crypto for it to be successfully killed. The ruling classes actually like it more than the lower classes do.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are nothing without public exchanges.

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#66

Post by keymone »

nosuchthing wrote: post #51
woah wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems impossible to implement true decentralized routing, so it's likely they're using some sort of hack to prioritize "masternodes" as the backbone routers instead of actual peer to peer routing. What do you mean "impossible to implement true decentralized routing"? Many examples of decentralized distance vector and link state algorithms exist. I'm not sure what they are doing but routing isn't some mystical th…

Very interesting and impressive project, thanks for sharing! It seems like p2p routing might work for a small network, but the complexity turns chaotic at scale very quickly. I guess time will tell how effective the LN implementation is.

just like with TSP - if you are willing to make concessions about accuracy, the problem becomes much more manageable.

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#67

Post by keymone »

thisisit wrote: post #63

I have watched couple of introductions on LN and had some questions, if someone can help: a. What effect does this have on transaction sizing? b. Does the the node owner charge fees for each transaction? c. How are the channel amounts calculated? Do they include mining and node fees?

a. LN transactions and Bitcoin transactions are different things, i will assume you mean "how does LN affect Bitcoin's chain capacity?" - to use LN you have to make at least one Bitcoin transaction - so called "funding" transaction which opens or refills a channel, afterwards you can make millions of LN micropayments - none of them will affect Bitcoin tx capacity.

b. Yes, it's part of node configuration, you can set whatever fee you like, but most probably at this point everybody will just route around you.

c. When creating the funding transaction you decide the amount of satoshi to be locked up in a channel for use in LN. Funding transaction is subject to normal Bitcoin transaction fees (x sat/byte, the higher you pay the faster it's committed and your channel becomes usable).

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#68

Post by keymone »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #41
apo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen nothing to suggest that a LN operator would be considered a money transmitter. Whats your best reason for thinking so, and why does your definition of money transmission not include miners?

Miners only register a transfer of value and validate it against their perspective of the current ledger. Transfer routed through a lightning channel involves explicit exchange of funds between intermediaries.

this is not entirely correct. in A -> B -> C payment at no point does B hold A's money with a promise to pay it forward to C.

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#69

Post by marknadal »

nosuchthing wrote: post #38

Does anyone know how Lightening Network code actually routes nodes? The LN claim is basically decentralized BGP but much more complex and prone to race condition errors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug8NH67_EfE&feature=youtu.be... The white paper doesn't even mention how LN routing works! 8.4 Payment Routing It is theoretically possible to build a route map implicitly from observing 2-of-2 multisigs on the blockch…

We're implementing a public-key based radix tree routing algorithm over here at gun, which is ranked #2 in blockchain ( https://github.com/topics/blockchain ).

Better, physical proximity (via Bluetooth or WiFi mesh networks) would provide immediate local routing. This would work with the above.

Re: Show HN: Lightning Network Search and Analysis Engine

#70

Post by keymone »

qsucvatz wrote: post #40
dane-pgp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And living up to Satoshi's original vision of a "purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash".

And support by the original developers of Bitcoin, for scaling by blocksize and exponential growth of computing, bandwidth, and storage.

and here i thought that scaling distributed systems is very hard problem. it turns out you just bump a number in configuration. quick, patent it and sell to google for billions!
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