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How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

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Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#171

Post by buttershakes »

jopsen wrote: post #147
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being deprived of your freedom is punishment enough. That should be easy to accept for any libertarian and even many conservatives (the ones with libertarian tendencies). Anything beyond that is just adding insult to injury and only serves to reflect badly on the correctional system itself. For instance, I don't understand under what logic prisoners absolutely need to have their stuff chucked out on a regular basis.…

It benefits nobody, that is what makes it evil. Isn't the question why voters are so cruel? Why do American Christians only make headlines when they preach hatred against the LBQT community?

It benefits the people in power. It benefits corporations who need cheap exploitable labor, or directly profit from the operation of the prison industry. It forces people into low paying menial jobs that keep large companies profitable. It serves a political purpose by scapegoating and marginalizing minorities. It fills the pockets of politicians who help to expand the system and cater to the military-industrial complex that perversely feeds on inequality. I don't think there is a system of oppression or economic control in existence that doesn't benefit somebody, directly or indirectly.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#172

Post by frobozz »

edanm wrote: post #126
edanm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Come to think of it, why is the criminal justice system not "tested"? In other words, set up a mock situation where you know in advance who is innocent and who is not (because it's a setup), and run a mock trial by all the rules using actual jurors, and compare the outcome of the trial to the actual innocence or guilt of the actor? Probably for the same reason most things are or aren't done - some form of status-qu…

Also, just to answer your actual hypothetical of "testing" the criminal justice system: I'm not sure how you would test it. You can run a "mock" trial, although I'm not sure it's so easy - to be realistic, I think you need to create a scenario which can plausibly go in either direction (innocent or guilty). But what would that tell you? I mean, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a pretty high standard and all, but if you…

Part of the point of a jury is to have multiple disinterested individuals ruling on the defendant's guilt. That in itself forms a partial test of the process.

You could run a trial with multiple independent juries, or record a trial and play it back to a set of juries and judges to see if they come up with the same verdict and sentence. This would help determine whether a given jury has a particularly forceful and prejudiced member, or if a hanging judge is handing out unfair sentences.

I'd be surprised if that sort of thing doesn't already happen occasionally. However, all this does is indicate where a problem might be, rather than validate a potential solution.

A/B testing of potential enhancements would be very difficult and limited. There are too many confounding factors. Judge and jury would have to be different each time. Witness testimony may seem unconvincingly rehearsed, or more convincingly thorough, the nth time they give it. Defendants will be able to avoid incriminating traps the prosecuting barrister set in previous iterations of the trial.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#173

Post by macintux »

knodi123 wrote: post #104
macintux wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Challenge accepted: I'll deny it. It's only a "complete" solution if you actually have the right person.

Challenge defeated: The term recidivism means "the tendency of a convicted criminal to reoffend." Thus it only applies to the already convicted. If they weren't caught and convicted, and they reoffend, it's not recidivism.

Touché.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#175

Post by Thrwr11 »

EggsOnToast wrote: post #70
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #53

For a semester, I taught in a state prison for a prisoner educational program. Every time I went in, I was struck by how punitively petty so many of the rules and corrections officers were. The environment is carefully crafted to suck out all joy and hope from the inmates. Azkaban with its dementor guards is a pretty good illustration of an American prison. Guards are as likely to confiscate gaming materials (and pun…

I'm just giving anecdata here so I'm curious to see if you agree with me. Having known two people that went to prison, my opinion on the system is that I think people usually go to prison for the legally correct reason. That being said, a lot of people I meet seem to associate going to prison with deserving to live in a hellhole. No one considers the social exclusion itself a hellhole as evidenced by the ubiquitousne…

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes. Anecdatum does not exist.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#177

Post by Simon_says »

specialist wrote: post #120
dfee wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this is a representative sample or a bizarre situational experience?

People believe all sorts of things. One devout partner implored me to stop meditating (during my Zen & Buddha kick) because she didn't want me to succumb to Satan. Another believer partner educated me about ghosts (tl;dr: they're every where). A coworker told me my cancer was caused by negative thoughts and that germ theory was a conspiracy. Whaddya gonna do? My fear is that I'm unknowingly harboring some wildly irra…

There’s some weak evidence that stress is linked to cancer. It might not be true, but the idea isn’t ridiculous on its face.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#178

Post by dtech »

sathackr wrote: post #134
pmarreck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people usually go to prison for the legally correct reason Or not, if most of the incriminating information was eyewitness testimony, the #1 cause of wrongful convictions: https://www.innocenceproject.org/ MY opinion of the US criminal justice system is that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation is almost definitely not being followed, with the bias far into the false-positive conviction…

The vast majority of convictions arise from plea bargaining. Prosecutors and law enforcement stack charges so that it appears to be a 'good deal' to just accept a plea deal rather than risk trial and spending decades behind bars on the slight chance you will be falsely convicted. IMO this is the single biggest problem with our system. Plea bargaining and prosecutorial discretion makes a mockery of due process. Overlo…

There is not a lot wrong with plea bargaining if an innocent suspect can except a fair trail, it trades a more lenient sentence for criminals for a more efficient, speedier and cheaper system.

The problem in the US is that poor innocent suspects have heavily stacked odds in a trail: multiple biases in judges and juries and no good lawyer with enough time for their defense. So an innocent must take the plea bargain because trail isn't a reasonable option.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#179

Post by sorokod »

frobozz wrote: post #172
edanm wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, just to answer your actual hypothetical of "testing" the criminal justice system: I'm not sure how you would test it. You can run a "mock" trial, although I'm not sure it's so easy - to be realistic, I think you need to create a scenario which can plausibly go in either direction (innocent or guilty). But what would that tell you? I mean, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a pretty high standard and all, but if you…

Part of the point of a jury is to have multiple disinterested individuals ruling on the defendant's guilt. That in itself forms a partial test of the process. You could run a trial with multiple independent juries, or record a trial and play it back to a set of juries and judges to see if they come up with the same verdict and sentence. This would help determine whether a given jury has a particularly forceful and pr…

Given the intese scrutiny the litigating side give to jury selection, I'd say that it is well understood that trials may go this way or that based on a particular jury and regardless of the facts

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#180

Post by Thrwr11 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #139
EggsOnToast wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just giving anecdata here so I'm curious to see if you agree with me. Having known two people that went to prison, my opinion on the system is that I think people usually go to prison for the legally correct reason. That being said, a lot of people I meet seem to associate going to prison with deserving to live in a hellhole. No one considers the social exclusion itself a hellhole as evidenced by the ubiquitousne…

People seem to be incredibly judgemental and lacking in compassion for people in different circumstances. There are a lot of people out there who haven't been exposed to drugs who believe that people who take drugs actually deserve to die. Recently in New Zealand several people ended up in hospital after taking dodgy "MDMA", the sheer number of comments on Facebook about how they had it coming, or they deserved it, o…

Addicts are people and deserve help, sure. Most of the hate towards them comes from their bad behavior and how that affects other people. Deathwishes are just one way to cope with the inability to actually do anything about, say, noisy or violent drug addicts or criminals who don't care about other people.
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