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Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

mtlynch.io

631–640 of 783 posts

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#631
Once Quality is defined it no longer is Quality. Instead it opens the way for gatekeepers to stand guard around their moat and claim Quality eventually corrupting the original definition.

To try and hold onto that which cannot be held onto is the path of good intentions that leads to hell. It is the temporary victory of bean counters while the human spirit nurses it's wounds.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#632
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

relatedly, a friend of mine worked at a place where everyone was on "20% time = bug time". You were expected to spend ~ 20% of your time taking bugs from the bug tracker and fixing them. Bugs closed were part of a metric towards bonuses. People were taking one bug, breaking it in to 3 or 4, then closing all of those. "Add button for X" became * "add button on form" * "add CSS for button" * "update CSS for button" * "…

In my naivety I've never heard nor thought about "what gets measured gets gamed". It's been my intuition for a while, but it explains much of what used to frustrate me -- I wish someone had told me this 15 years ago.

Never thought about it that way but it is probably the reason I like to understajpnd the rules before breaking them.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#633

To author: you lost the political game. I busted my ass at a startup for years and also lost the political game. So I'm speaking from experience here. You can either get all mad and worked up and pissed off about it, and waste years of your career (as I did) being pissed off, stubborn, and refusing to change. Or figure out how to play. I'd like to think there are places with better politics but I think it's pretty en…

[Manager here]

I don't really see what the political game is here that he lost. What I think he failed to do was show impact in a clear a visible way.

Don't get me wrong, there is salesmanship required here in terms of clearly demonstrating your value, but it's not like Google was giving the promo to some other guys who always went out to dinner with his boss and sucked up to him, or the guy the boss went to college with, or the guy who throws his team under the bus to make himself look good. that is politics, "politics" being defined as acts that make you look good but are detrimental behavior to the team and the company. And I think that's what google is trying to avoid with their promo panels where you get feedback from peer, peer team managers, and make the judgement as an impartial panel.

Also I see this as a manager failure. Clearly this manager isn't well calibrated, because he continues to get "strongly exceeds expectations" and yet can't get you the promotion you obviously deserve if you strongly exceed expectations. They also should be helping you both with your promo packet so that you're putting your best foot forward, and talking to you about how you can improve and demonstrate your value when you do your work to make sure you can get an even strong promotion packet the next time. Given this manager failure, I'm not surprised the employee quit.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#634
post #596
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe that middle managers were useless shits who wasted my time and got in the way of work. I imagined that the flat organizational model made more sense: since this is what my day to day life is, anyway, at least we get rid of idiots who get paid more than me. Then I worked in a place where I had actually good middle management. They were smart and capable. They supported our team and helped us succeed.…

The problem is it's very difficult to interview your management chain before you take the job.

Why do you think it should be difficult?

I almost always interview my immediate management chain (immediate manager and boss of my immediate manager) before taking a job.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#635

To author: you lost the political game. I busted my ass at a startup for years and also lost the political game. So I'm speaking from experience here. You can either get all mad and worked up and pissed off about it, and waste years of your career (as I did) being pissed off, stubborn, and refusing to change. Or figure out how to play. I'd like to think there are places with better politics but I think it's pretty en…

Slightly snarky cliffs

SWE did good work, got passed over for promotion several times, got mad and quits cushy software job to freelance. Everyone sympathizes because everyone thinks they do promotion-worthy work.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#636
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a remote team once helping a company in Seattle (that perhaps had a bit of a jock culture problem). I could be stuck for days because following the README in a repo just wasn't enough to get the project to compile and run. Every standup I was telling "I'm completely blocked for the last two days because I cannot run the repo, so I cannot run any tests and at the moment I'm doing absolutely nothing.". To b…

I can't say for sure but your mention of 'CSS' makes me guess this is a web application, in which case you should be able to read the source code and figure out how to build it. If people aren't helping you then according to their cost benefit matrix it isn't worth it. Maybe they are supposed to be doing other work and they can't calculate how many hours they would have to spend helping you. Maybe they are just afrai…

> I can't say for sure but your mention of 'CSS' makes me guess this is a web application, in which case you should be able to read the source code and figure out how to build it.

Not necessarily. In my case, we have a web application where it eventually turned out that the variable was read from an environment variable. On a server where I didn't have access.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's true, which is why I said "why not both?" The manager should do more, but so should the employee. Sitting there and saying "I'm blocked, woe is me" is garbage compared to saying "I'm blocked. Can you please help me Mr/Ms XYZ?"

> What a complete lack of individual ownership. Even the best manager can't help somebody who is unwilling to help themselves. > Source: am a manager. > I'm blocked, woe is me" is garbage As a manager, are you prepared to put your real name to these comments?

I don't see what his real name has to do with this

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#638
post #396

To author: you lost the political game. I busted my ass at a startup for years and also lost the political game. So I'm speaking from experience here. You can either get all mad and worked up and pissed off about it, and waste years of your career (as I did) being pissed off, stubborn, and refusing to change. Or figure out how to play. I'd like to think there are places with better politics but I think it's pretty en…

> Or figure out how to play. There's a third way. Don't go to Google. There are literally thousands of smaller places you can work for/in/with, some of them do pretty cool things. There'd be politics too, probably, but not as much as in Google, and you could control your destiny to a more significant degree. Small(er) companies - if you pick right - tend to have significantly better environment in that regard (not pe…

There are politics no matter where you are. Whenever two or three are gathered together, there is politics. Politics is just what people call interpersonal dynamics when they don't like a particular setup. The bottom line is that people all have their set of goals, and if you are lucky, your goals, their goals, and the goals of the company are well aligned. If they aren't the question is can you find a way of changing the situation so that they are better aligned?

This applies to being a leader in a volunteer organization, or being a leader in an open source project --- or being a leader in a corporate environment. In my experience the last is often actually easier and simpler than the first two!

As far as your goals are concerned, you should be clear to yourself what they are. For me, it wasn't primarily about the money. Sure, I'm at Google now, and I'm enjoying the compensation --- but I spent nine years at MIT before I moved on to VA Linux Systems (and doubled my salary, before equity --- most of which ended up being worthless).

If you know what your goals and desires are, the next trick is to understand what others' goals and desires are, and trying to help them achieve their goals while also making yours a reality. This is true whether you are working for yourself, or working at a big company. (And at a big company, sometimes it's a matter of finding the right team. Don't assume that just because you had a lousy time on one team that the characteristics of your situation are universal across the entire company.)

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a certain kind of person to interpret ""I'm blocked" as "I'm blocked, woe is me" instead of "I'm blocked. Can anyone that sees this help me?" Those people should never be managers.

I disagree. A manager should be skeptical to ensure everyone is pulling their weight and being truthful.

If they don't trust the employee they need to fire them.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#640
Working at big companies it is very important to choose which projects to work on, and which to not work on. You should be asking your manager, product manager, whoever, to explain in detail how your project is going to be helping. Why is it even necessary? If it's a smaller part of a big system, what is the bigger system doing, and is this project really going to help it in some way? And in some way I mean some way that can be easily measured and demonstrable. The business case must be crystal clear.

If it's new development, how do they know this feature or thing is going to work, or is needed? What work has been done to verify these assumptions, and what is the risk? If there is any data collected, user stories, or customer interviews, ask to see that information. Ask to see any roadmaps or presentations given to higher level managers. Ask to be included in any product meetings or customer interviews. If they balk at any of this, it's a red flag that they are unwilling to be open with their plans. In my experience, this normally means they know their own plans are bullshit or they simply don't exist. It's really amazing how many managers and senior level people at these companies operate on bullshit. I've seen it so many times.

The purpose of all this is to insulate and protect yourself from the failure of your own management. If a manager keeps cancelling your projects, ask why? Personally after a manager has cancelled one of my projects more than once and there isn't a good explanation why (i.e. something I myself wouldn't have seen coming), I start to question and doubt his decision making ability, and I'm less likely to want to work on his team or do his assigned work. I immediately start looking at other options for how I can benefit the company. This is a tricky situation in itself, however. I've had managers who have let me run with my own ideas and have praised me for leading projects and working closely with various areas of the business, and I've also been fired because my manager couldn't stand the fact I wasn't willing to be his slave and work on another of his (soon to be cancelled) projects.

In many tech companies who only care about end of the line results, it's simply not enough to do a good job. You have to do a good job on something that actually matters. When you're up for promotion, you're up against other people who have done a good job at things that have mattered, and the quantification being done is how much of these good things matter when compared to one another.

It's really a shame in this case that it seems like the OP was really stuck under very poor management who clearly didn't know what they were doing.

If Google holds it engineers to results, why doesn't it let them at least decide what they get to work on? It seems they've forgotten the part that if you're going to decouple someone's direct management influence, you need to decouple that manager's ability to assign that person work or dictate what projects he or she works on. Just goes to show even at a company like Google they don't have everything figured out...

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