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How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

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Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#141

Post by joeblow9999 »

edanm wrote: post #123
pmarreck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people usually go to prison for the legally correct reason Or not, if most of the incriminating information was eyewitness testimony, the #1 cause of wrongful convictions: https://www.innocenceproject.org/ MY opinion of the US criminal justice system is that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation is almost definitely not being followed, with the bias far into the false-positive conviction…

> Come to think of it, why is the criminal justice system not "tested"? In other words, set up a mock situation where you know in advance who is innocent and who is not (because it's a setup), and run a mock trial by all the rules using actual jurors, and compare the outcome of the trial to the actual innocence or guilt of the actor? Probably for the same reason most things are or aren't done - some form of status-qu…

"3 wrong convictions a year out of 100k trials. Which would probably be pretty "acceptable"."

Not if you're one of the 3.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#142

Post by Spooky23 »

aerotwelve wrote: post #12
walshemj wrote: post #2

Surprised that prisons ban dice but not cards which can be used to substitute for dice. Interestingly some of the early board games used spinners as dice where seen as sinful, normally by the more hard core protestants.

I'm ready to take the hit for asking a very stupid question: why are dice considered contraband? Wouldn't it make more sense to allow inmates access to dice and real spinners? They're human beings with brains. Wouldn't correction officers prefer that they spent their time playing games instead of thinking of ways to escape or "cause trouble"?

Because craps and other dice games swing quickly and cause problems. Also the plastic can be sharpened into a point.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#143

Post by scarmig »

mr_toad wrote: post #82
scarmig wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether prisons are effective for deterrence is an empirical question. As it turns out, they're not particularly effective. The people who go and hold up a convenience store aren't doing it because of a reasoned cost-benefit analysis based on risk of capture, differential value of prison vs freedom, and future discount rates. They're doing it because they don't do those things. That leaves three real reasons: 1) Refo…

And yet, power blackouts, police strikes and natural disasters usually lead to outbreaks of looting and vandalism. At least some proportion of the population are deterred by the possibility of being caught and punished.

Of being caught. Police presence is the deterrent, not the potential punishment.

This seems weird to you because it's not how your mind works, but it's what the data indicates.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#144

Post by scarmig »

dictum wrote: post #46
scarmig wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether prisons are effective for deterrence is an empirical question. As it turns out, they're not particularly effective. The people who go and hold up a convenience store aren't doing it because of a reasoned cost-benefit analysis based on risk of capture, differential value of prison vs freedom, and future discount rates. They're doing it because they don't do those things. That leaves three real reasons: 1) Refo…

> The people who go and hold up a convenience store aren't doing it because of a reasoned cost-benefit analysis based on risk of capture, differential value of prison vs freedom, and future discount rates. They're doing it because they don't do those things. Conversely, at least some percentage of the people who don't have made that cost-benefit analysis. Plus some part of the people who go and commit felonies, mainl…

...and the point is that the elasticity of crime with respect to punishment is minimal. You're saying those people exist, which is true and undisputed, but they're relatively rare and statistically insignificant, and not a useful angle for thinking about policy.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#145

Post by IntronExon »

scarmig wrote: post #143
mr_toad wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, power blackouts, police strikes and natural disasters usually lead to outbreaks of looting and vandalism. At least some proportion of the population are deterred by the possibility of being caught and punished.

Of being caught. Police presence is the deterrent, not the potential punishment. This seems weird to you because it's not how your mind works, but it's what the data indicates.

Exactly. People do not commit crimes with the expectation of being caught; it’s why the death penalty is terrible deterrence.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#146

Post by joejev »

tachyoff wrote: post #93
pmarreck wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people usually go to prison for the legally correct reason Or not, if most of the incriminating information was eyewitness testimony, the #1 cause of wrongful convictions: https://www.innocenceproject.org/ MY opinion of the US criminal justice system is that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation is almost definitely not being followed, with the bias far into the false-positive conviction…

> Come to think of it, why is the criminal justice system not "tested"? I can think of a few. 1. That costs time and money. Even if it would help, I see it being very difficult to justify, essentially, "secret shoppers" for the court system. I think it also kind of underestimates how much time, money, and effort goes into trials. It's not like a quick batch of unit tests. It involves lawyers, judges, jury selection (…

> elipsoid earth theory

Do you actually know this is true? Have you tested this?

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#147

Post by jopsen »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #83
EggsOnToast wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just giving anecdata here so I'm curious to see if you agree with me. Having known two people that went to prison, my opinion on the system is that I think people usually go to prison for the legally correct reason. That being said, a lot of people I meet seem to associate going to prison with deserving to live in a hellhole. No one considers the social exclusion itself a hellhole as evidenced by the ubiquitousne…

Being deprived of your freedom is punishment enough. That should be easy to accept for any libertarian and even many conservatives (the ones with libertarian tendencies). Anything beyond that is just adding insult to injury and only serves to reflect badly on the correctional system itself. For instance, I don't understand under what logic prisoners absolutely need to have their stuff chucked out on a regular basis.…

It benefits nobody, that is what makes it evil.

Isn't the question why voters are so cruel? Why do American Christians only make headlines when they preach hatred against the LBQT community?

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#148

Post by Izkata »

partomniscient wrote: post #121
sevensor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a memorable chick tract on the same theme as well.

The girl in it casts the Mind Bondage spell on her Dad to make him buy $200 worth of D&D stuff. I was rather incredulous at the time because a) they thought it was the case that spells in D&D work in our reality and b) there didn't appear to be a Mind Bondage spell.....unless perhaps they meant Charm Person? What's their take on Stranger Things?

I've heard similar stories of people thinking the Harry Potter books taught kids how to use real magic.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#149

Post by jopsen »

Notorious_BLT wrote: post #7

I guess I can understand the dice ban (sort of?) but the fact that some prisons have apparently have banned games like D&D altogether is bizarre to me. It seems like a healthy, relatively peaceful way to pass time and do something creative. I can't see it having a negative effect that other prison activities don't already make possible.

If people want to gamble they'll find a way. It's not like you can prevent random events from occurring.

Re: How Inmates Play Tabletop RPGs in Prisons Where Dice Are Contraband

#150

Post by r00fus »

jnbiche wrote: post #138
kolpa wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US prison system is largely a loophole to recreate slavery without violating the letter of the 13th Amendment. http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/gilmoreprisonslavery...

Despite black Americans being incarcerated at greater rates than white Americans, there are far more white Americans incarcerated than there are black Americans. So if the objective was to re-create slavery, they did a very poor job out of it. No, our prison system hurts all races: white, black, Asian, native, etc. And sadly -- because of the racism prevalent in US society -- if we want true prison reform, we have to…

Slavery isn't entirely synonymous with racism. Just mostly so.

The elite need their lower class.

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