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China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

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Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#121

Post by pmontra »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #83
dekhn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's completely wrong. The Palantiri were created by the Noldor (one of the powerful old races of elves) and used without corruption, and then given to the Numenoreans as a gift; they were used for a long time without corruption. They were so powerful that even Sauron could not make arbitrary images appear. But the weak-minded were easily influenced by him through it; not through the nature of the stones. The ring…

The exception being Tom Bombadil, but he is a strange creature.

You'll probably enjoy this essay "Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil" https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#122

Post by liberte82 »

refurb wrote: post #72
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #6

Does it actually work? Or are the "criminals" just social activists?

My thought exactly. This isn't new. It's just the East German Stasi system with a little bit of technology sprinkled in.

Oh good, just the East German system.

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#123

Post by liberte82 »

IntronExon wrote: post #29
45h34jh53k4j wrote: post #15

This will be rolled out further and further, first the rest of China, then other parts of Asia, eventually Europe and the Americas. Strongly resist the rollout of this technology, along with the social credit rating systems. This is like the last chapter of humanity before we stagnate for hundreds of years.

In the US at least, there are probably enough people with a significant number of firearms that it would take a war to make this work. I’m not usually fond of anti-government fanatics, but I have to admit that in extremes they can be useful.

The people with the guns will be the ones supporting this. The US Govt won't be going after those types (to start) - this will first be used to justify going after terrorists, pedophiles, and the like.

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#124

Post by [deleted] »

dekhn wrote: post #42
leggomylibro wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies which name themselves after dystopic objects or ideals with a 'nod and wink' always creep the living hell out of me. There's never a good answer when they inevitably ask, "well what did you think was going to happen?" http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Palant%C3%ADri

the palantiri weren't dystopic objects. they were positive items used for communication until some of them were captured. I think the name of the company is highly apt.

[deleted]

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#125

Post by Nokinside »

adventured wrote: post #117
Nokinside wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military Commissions Act seems to have passed the scrutiny of both legal and political part of the system. The legal battle has shifted permanently. It's now over details in particular cases, not over the generic principle. The notion of enemy is now in the US criminal law. The President of the United States has now the power to designate either US citizens for foreign citizens as enemy. The way it's defined includes…

What you're talking about - the erosions in the US system - is an extraordinary distance from where China is at already. You can't talk about Winnie the Pooh in China, or mispronounce the "ping" part of Jinping in the media. Those aren't jokes, that's indicative of China's rapid regression backwards. Over the last five years they've curtailed the few freedoms around business and expression that had been gained. Their…

I was not comparing. I was just pointing out that habeas corpus is not protecting US citizens from the government as it once did.

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#126

Post by z2 »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #79
yanaccount wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame should not be on people who choose not to forgo the comfort of modern technology, it should be on a state which abuses that technology for dubious purposes.

No-one (perhaps except folks like Stallman?) is blameless here. One of the responsibilities of citizenship is to preserve your liberty against encroachment by State and private actors. Neglecting to consider that is a moral failure, and one I've been guilty of in the past. I'm not saying that it's necessarily immoral to, say, have a FB account. But it is to have one without considering the implications and acting acc…

Is it also a failure (moral or otherwise) for the State to not tell citizens of this particular duty? Speaking anecdotally, citizens' duties are vaguely described as "participate, stay informed, obey and support laws." It took me decades to notice the subtle and complex intentions of the State and private actors that counter freedoms in said laws.

Not being Stallman or a full-time civil liberties defender, what's a good way for the basic citizen to be more informed, and better evaluate FB-like services?

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#127

Post by antisthenes »

corysama wrote: post #43
Paul_S wrote: post #13

Once the algorithms realise that everyone commits at least a few crimes a day they will become 100% infallible by issuing arrest warrants for anyone with a pulse.

I never read Brave New World , but I've heard that was a theme. Everyone used illegal drugs, but there was no enforcement. Instead, if they wanted to bring you in, they just charged you with illegal drug use --because everyone knows that everyone uses illegal drugs.

That is not at all what the book is about.

Not only was the drug legal, the premise of bringing people in has nothing to do with the plot and theme of the book.

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#128

Post by zombieprocesses »

anonytrary wrote: post #31

For those of you who find this interesting and also enjoy anime, Psycho-Pass explores this premise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Pass TLDR: > The story takes place in an authoritarian future dystopia, where omnipresent public sensors continuously scan the mental states of every passing citizen. Collected data on both present mentality and aggregated personality data is used to gauge the probability of that ci…

Or if you like good movies, Minority Report...

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#129

Post by bb88 »

Fricken wrote: post #104
ejlangev wrote: post #57

It's a shame we moved a lot of the US industrial base to an authoritarian and potentially hostile country like China. A bit scary to think of the generation or two of people who won't have the knowledge to manufacture things should they ever need to because of conflict in some form. Seems like it reduces any leverage the US has for holding China accountable for much that it does.

What would holding China accountable entail, exactly? "America doesn't like they way you do civilization. We don't like the way you brought 650 million people out of extreme poverty in a generation. If you have to use authoritarian tactics to do that, it's better that they stay poor and addicted to opium. You have to disband now." "Oh, okay. Sorry America. We recognize the error of our ways. We will stop being China…

The problem is that if you don't hold China accountable, it gives them the green light to do even worse things.

Re: China using big data to detain people before crime is committed

#130

Post by sjg007 »

drb91 wrote: post #110
forapurpose wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what another state department might have done The US State Department, and the entire US government, has for generations made human rights central to US foreign policy. It's believed that people with freedom and opportunity become vibrant trade partners and allies, not enemies in war. Democracies don't start wars against other democracies, as an historical rule. That historic policy is widely believed…

This seems deeply, deeply idealistic to me--but ultimately this seems political, so I'll just say my point was that it's not clear what Obama could have done differently aside from save face and keep the state department staffed.

Let's just see if Trump and the State department make any statements condemning these moves and encouraging democratic institutions. Sometimes all you need is a few strongly worded statements that say we are watching. The US has a lot of influence here.
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