Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#391

Post by dahart » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

winstonewert wrote: post #207

Djvacto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, would you mind helping me see if I understand quadratic voting correctly? Let's say there are 4 voters: A, B, C, D, voting on policies 1-10. Everyone gets a certain number of votes (say one per policy, so 10 total). Voter A only really cares about policy 5 & 7. So they want to buy votes for these 2. They can give up their votes in, say, policies 1-4 to get 2 more votes for policy 5, and can also give up votes 6,…

In QV, you buy votes with money. You can buy as money votes as you want, but you have the pay v*v for it, where v is the number of votes.

> In QV, you buy votes with money.

FWIW, the paper describes it as a vote currency that can only be used for the vote, as opposed to cash you could spend on anything. The voice credits have to be distributed to voters.

'individuals pay for as many votes as they wish using a number of "voice credits" quadratic in the votes they buy.'

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#392

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

popcat wrote: post #182

eldavido wrote: post #91

To author: you lost the political game. I busted my ass at a startup for years and also lost the political game. So I'm speaking from experience here. You can either get all mad and worked up and pissed off about it, and waste years of your career (as I did) being pissed off, stubborn, and refusing to change. Or figure out how to play. I'd like to think there are places with better politics but I think it's pretty en…

As a junior engineer, what the best way to learn about and master the political game? I feel like it all goes way over my head. Does anyone have any recommended reading?

[deleted]

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#393

Post by ironjunkie » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

riazrizvi wrote: post #380

ironjunkie wrote: post #356

> I was surrounded by the best engineers in the world, using the most advanced development tools in the world. This one might be ironic, but am I the only one feeling really annoyed by the fact that every engineer working at Google feels like every other engineers at Google is "the best in the world" ? Beside the obvious arrogance, I cannot tell if it's a subtle brainwashing or a complete lack of critical thinking. (…

Google, Facebook, Palantir, Microsoft - it's a narrative that those organizations spend dollars to support because it helps them in recruitment and in b2b consulting. It is similar in investment banking and management consulting. The employees lap it up, and learn to talk-the-talk. Each of these tech companies are cash cows with huge locked-in revenue streams that do not depend so much on innovation for survival. IMO…

My feeling also. The whole "At Google everyone is THE smartest in the world": This is marketing "talk-the-talk".

It's crazy once you realize how easy it is to make the employees repeat the ego-flattering "talk-the-talk" without them realizing they are part of a huge marketing machine.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#394

Post by walshemj » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

Strange that you don't personally go before a board to present which was my experience at a Large tech company in the uk - relying only on written "packets" would seem to discriminate for neurotypicals.

Btw anyone know what the number of promotion slots a year for the eligible population is in google?

When I worked in Systems engineering division (67k FTE) in BT there where 18 or so mpg2-> mpg4 every 18 months (if we were lucky) approx. 600 would pass the paper shift to get on the short list.

I was told by my boss that getting on the short list meant they thought you where capable of doing the job group finance wouldn't approve of small in crease in pay quanta - I knew some people so desperate they took a transfer to payphones to get a promotion.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#395

Post by walshemj » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

marssaxman wrote: post #367

dep_b wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a remote team once helping a company in Seattle (that perhaps had a bit of a jock culture problem). I could be stuck for days because following the README in a repo just wasn't enough to get the project to compile and run. Every standup I was telling "I'm completely blocked for the last two days because I cannot run the repo, so I cannot run any tests and at the moment I'm doing absolutely nothing.". To b…

I have generally chosen to deal with this problem by refusing to acknowledge the existence of bonuses or promotions. It is harder for a warped incentive structure to warp your behavior if you refuse to be motivated by its prizes.

Nobel ideals but might get you targeted when a RIF comes around.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#396

Post by smsm42 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

eldavido wrote: post #91

To author: you lost the political game. I busted my ass at a startup for years and also lost the political game. So I'm speaking from experience here. You can either get all mad and worked up and pissed off about it, and waste years of your career (as I did) being pissed off, stubborn, and refusing to change. Or figure out how to play. I'd like to think there are places with better politics but I think it's pretty en…

> Or figure out how to play.

There's a third way. Don't go to Google. There are literally thousands of smaller places you can work for/in/with, some of them do pretty cool things. There'd be politics too, probably, but not as much as in Google, and you could control your destiny to a more significant degree. Small(er) companies - if you pick right - tend to have significantly better environment in that regard (not perfect, mind you, but better).

Or, if you want that specific experience and line in your resume, and of course all that sweet cash and stock, do it with the open eyes - don't expect it to be a fairy land where unicorns crap out rainbows, expect it to be a humongous bureaucratic corporation where you will get exactly your share of care and agency - the full 0.001%. Approach to it transactionally, know what you came for to get and what you are willing to pay for it, and if playing exhausting games is not part of it, get what you can for the price you're prepared to pay, and move on. Don't let the fact that you can't get some things for the price you're prepared to pay get to you and make you think you're somehow unworthy. If the price for getting title X in Google is behaving like you'd hate to behave, then you can't get title X at Google. So what, there are probably tons of things you can't get and always will be. Don't let it bother you too much.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#397

Post by eikenberry » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

MadBohr wrote: post #310

dep_b wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a remote team once helping a company in Seattle (that perhaps had a bit of a jock culture problem). I could be stuck for days because following the README in a repo just wasn't enough to get the project to compile and run. Every standup I was telling "I'm completely blocked for the last two days because I cannot run the repo, so I cannot run any tests and at the moment I'm doing absolutely nothing.". To b…

This to me sounds like a complete lack of self-ownership on your part. You literally sat blocked doing nothing for days, without reaching out to an individual to help with this? Instead you just spammed Slack saying you're blocked? While I agree that it would have been nice if somebody helped you, you are in control of your own destiny. If nobody is helping you, you need to personally escalate it and reach out until…

And even if everyone completely ignored them when they direct messaged their teammates... why do nothing. Why not dig in and figure out how to get it to build and update the Readme? I don't understand why someone would just sit there and do nothing instead of trying to fix the problem.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#398

Post by majani » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

AlexC04 wrote: post #197

popcat wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a junior engineer, what the best way to learn about and master the political game? I feel like it all goes way over my head. Does anyone have any recommended reading?

I think the author said it in the article: Optimize for promotion. Work from day 1 to game the metrics. If it helps your metrics, do it, if it doesn't approach with caution. If you start that from day 1 you'd be 2 years ahead of the author. Honestly, it sounds like a really shitty way to live. I personally prefer doing great work and having faith that it will work out. It has, a lot slower than that, but I'm proud of…

To add on to this, many jobs won't have good metrics in place, so promotion will depend on emotion and cognitive biases. Learning how to work these two factors is crucial.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#399

Post by dmitrygr » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

shatteredvisage wrote: post #4

mtlynch wrote: post #2

Author here. Happy to answer any questions about the post or about my experience at Google.

I'm going to be applying there soon, 4 years into my career. It'll involve a loong move and big changes: what advice can you give someone who wants to spend a couple years (or more?) with the big G? Also, any chance of submitting a referral? :)

* Negotiate the title hard! very hard! Harder than you ever have. It is much easier to get a higher level at hiring than ever after.

* Do NOT buy any line of the form "It is our policy to hire people with $YEARS of experience / $DEGREE degree / $OTHER_PROPERTY at level $LEVEL only"! It is all lies!

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#400

Post by code_sloth » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

MadBohr wrote: post #306

dgreensp wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a manager of some kind were to notice the Slack messages and ping someone specific to help, that would be a perfect example of the kind of management that is so sorely lacking at so many companies. Many employees are too burned, or proud, to even put out an SOS... so a cry for help is actually a gift to management. If only it were someone’s job to think for a few minutes each day about each employee and notice if…

Why not both? I cringed when I read OP's comment where he spammed "I'm completely blocked" in the chat without asking for specifics. What a complete lack of individual ownership. Even the best manager can't help somebody who is unwilling to help themselves. Source: am a manager.

When someone under-performs, I always look at who they report to. Nobody wants to perform poorly. Typically the lead / manager has given inadequate guidance, or there is a serious skill set mismatch, both of which are on the lead / manager.

Sometimes it's on me.

Source: I manage managers