Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#101

Post by dalbasal » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

Flammy wrote: post #88

scrumper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll piggyback on your comment as my sentiment is the same. This is far from the worst thing Facebook has done. It seems to address an unmet need. Maybe it will end up creepy and full of unforeseen consequences (like everything else FB) if nearly all non-office job seeking moves to FB, but for now it's helping people. (And also, Striper Sniper Tackle is a fabulous name for a fishing store.)

> Maybe it will end up creepy and full of unforeseen consequences The first thing I thought of when reading this article was "I wonder how many Herbalife 'jobs' in disguise will end up on here..."

Well... One thing job sites are very hesitant to do is qa. Jobs that aren't jobs. Listings without salary brackets. Where I live (Dublin) most jobs on job boards don't even mention the company name. This is because they're posted by recruiters that way, to avoid being routed around or tipping off the competition. Often the job doesn't exist, they're just resume fishing.

LinkedIn has similar issues.

I think there's hay to be made just on requiring a minimum amount of (ideally structured) information.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#102

Post by c1utch1 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

The problem I have with this is that job applications are one of the only instances where I use real data for my personal information (besides when dealing with heavily regulated industries like banks). So now Facebook is collecting treasure troves of data on people via this job application tool.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#103

Post by CamelCaseName » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:47 PM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #82

jurassic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is chock full of information that is illegal to ask about in job applications like marital and family status, sexual orientation, age, religion, etc. If this feature saw much adoption it seems like it would only result in greater discrimination. Beyond that, this move is surprising to me because we've been seeing a lot of stories lately about Facebook struggling to get people to post original content after l…

While I generally agree with the sentiment that facebook and job sites are like oil and water, how would discrimination with this tool work differently than just searching for an applicant on facebook today? I wouldn't imagine this information would be surfaced alongside the resume, so it would still require an employer to actively take steps to discriminate.

Wouldn't Facebook be the single best equipped company to stop potential discrimination?

E.g. You submit an application for a job posting - once that application is opened, Facebook could block anyone who has used that IP in the past 30 days from accessing your profile.

I imagine Facebook is where most publicly accessible personal data is, if they could be compelled to, by PR or law, they could dramatically curb discrimination.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#104

Post by mtgx » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #70

bduerst wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in your example, blue collar doesn't appear to use the internet to find jobs or job fairs, even if they have a Facebook account. This reads like a pitch for smart devices for baby boomers. Sure it's a blue ocean, but most retirees don't use smart devices, even though they may have a cell phone.

> most retirees don't use smart devices, even though they may have a cell phone. Really would love a citation for that. My dad is 74, my step mom is retired in her late 60s, all of their church group of about 35 people — every single one has a tablet or smart phone. That’s anecdotal obviously, but this sample is a mix of retired blue and white collar people at a variety of incomes (and ethnic backgrounds.) Retired bo…

Indeed. If anything, the saying "Facebook is for old people" seems to become truer by the day.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#105

Post by thedirt0115 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #82

jurassic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is chock full of information that is illegal to ask about in job applications like marital and family status, sexual orientation, age, religion, etc. If this feature saw much adoption it seems like it would only result in greater discrimination. Beyond that, this move is surprising to me because we've been seeing a lot of stories lately about Facebook struggling to get people to post original content after l…

While I generally agree with the sentiment that facebook and job sites are like oil and water, how would discrimination with this tool work differently than just searching for an applicant on facebook today? I wouldn't imagine this information would be surfaced alongside the resume, so it would still require an employer to actively take steps to discriminate.

It's different because you can set your profile privacy to "Friends Only" so prospective employers can't look at your info. Facebook, however, has access to all that data and who knows if/how they might discriminate (doubtful it would be explicit/intentional, but it's easy to accidentally let bias creep into machine learning algorithms).

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#106

Post by ecshafer » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

angrymouse wrote: post #98

Having redesigned a hospital's recruitment process to use Facebook advertising for the more "blue collar" type jobs (porters, support workers, estates type jobs as well as nurses) I can really see this working. We got ridiculous traction in the local area. We were reaching people who had never really thought of a career at their local hospital. But a hospital isn't just doctors. Often with Facebook we didn't actually…

I come from a blue collar background, and have a large blue collar network on Facebook. I regularly see people posting about jobs, sharing that they are looking for jobs, etc. It will often be in just a generic post along the lines of "x construction is looking for laborers, $20 an hour call #" then reshared a hundred times.

I think a formalized and well designed way of doing this could work and a have a large benefit.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#107

Post by beachy » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

CamelCaseName wrote: post #103

lhorie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I generally agree with the sentiment that facebook and job sites are like oil and water, how would discrimination with this tool work differently than just searching for an applicant on facebook today? I wouldn't imagine this information would be surfaced alongside the resume, so it would still require an employer to actively take steps to discriminate.

Wouldn't Facebook be the single best equipped company to stop potential discrimination? E.g. You submit an application for a job posting - once that application is opened, Facebook could block anyone who has used that IP in the past 30 days from accessing your profile. I imagine Facebook is where most publicly accessible personal data is, if they could be compelled to, by PR or law, they could dramatically curb discr…

That would be trivial to circumvent (pick up your phone and browse their profile from that) and would have false negatives (large company with many users behind NAT).

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#108

Post by criddell » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

tannhauser23 wrote: post #69

evanlivingston wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I not bring my politics to work? Isn't bringing politics to work what got us the 40 hour work week and the weekend?

Are you serious? Do you want to get work done or argue about guns/abortion/taxes/foreign policy all day?

I don't think it's an either-or situation.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#109

Post by JimDabell » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #101

Flammy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it will end up creepy and full of unforeseen consequences The first thing I thought of when reading this article was "I wonder how many Herbalife 'jobs' in disguise will end up on here..."

Well... One thing job sites are very hesitant to do is qa. Jobs that aren't jobs. Listings without salary brackets. Where I live (Dublin) most jobs on job boards don't even mention the company name. This is because they're posted by recruiters that way, to avoid being routed around or tipping off the competition. Often the job doesn't exist, they're just resume fishing. LinkedIn has similar issues. I think there's ha…

I agree with everything you say, but I also think that it's incredibly unlikely Facebook will curate jobs any more than they do the rest of the content in Facebook. You're right about the opportunity to improve recruitment in these aspects, but it's not going to be Facebook that does it.

Re: Facebook rolls out job posts to become the blue-collar LinkedIn

#110

Post by vanadium » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #86

vanadium wrote: post #63

"One in four people in the US have searched for or found a job using Facebook" [citation needed]

Citation needed? That doesn’t make any sense in this context. It’s a primary source. They know what people search for in their own site. That’s like me saying I found my job using a newspaper and you saying citation needed. I just told you what I know to be true. Do you go around snapping ‘citation needed’ at anyone who tells you anything about their business? Madness.

Respectfully no, but it would be relevant to understand the methodology of how they were able to discern a 1-in-4 statistic which seems, on its face at least, questionable at best. Maybe they're right and the methodology might be sound, but it doesn't change my perspective without that backing information to contextualize it.

A "primary source" also isn't in any way immune to rational inquiry. I don't mean for this parallel in any way to imply a relationship, but just look at our administration or any one of innumerable other examples to this end. Taking something at face value, to me at least, requires more than a decontextualized statement of fact when my immediate impulse is to question it (in this particular case).

For instance, define "job". Are we talking about a recommendation leading to a project for a contractor, or are we talking a full-time position? I mean, that's just the start. In what ways are they determining what constitutes "finding a job"? Talking to friends and friends of friends? Or directly messaging a corporation's page on Facebook?

There's a lot of squish here and I wish they were more forthcoming about what that statistic actually means.