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Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

mtlynch.io

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Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#251

Post by ultrasounder »

nickjj wrote: post #63

Good luck with your new programming adventures. Just based on reading your article I would say your mindset is in the right spot to be successful on your own. I've been freelancing as a developer for the last 20 years and have turned down interviews from Google / etc. in the past. It's a fun ride. > Optimizing for promotion This is one of many reasons why I'll never work a "regular" job.

Hi Nick just popped in to say Thank You for your SAAS Flask course. I am slowly working through it along with the updated Flask Mega Tutorial

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#252

Post by phamilton »

ravenstine wrote: post #100
phamilton wrote: post #64

Writing documentation and fixing bugs is in fact not the bar for a senior software engineer. I don't disagree with the promotion committee on that front. IIRC, Senior Software Engineer is a terminal level. You aren't expected to advance any more once you reach that level. Some do, but you can stay a Senior Engineer for the rest of your career and that's fine. So certainly "can fix bugs and write docs and tests" isn't…

The notion that "a junior engineer and a manager who is at least partially paying attention can get that done" is a horseshit excuse that could be applied to 99% of what any given developer does. Moreover, developers find themselves having to write tests and fix bugs because the priorities of upper management didn't allow it or foster it for the last developer.

> developers find themselves having to write tests and fix bugs because the priorities of upper management didn't allow it

Well there's your problem. If fixing those bugs isn't aligned with the priorities of upper management then you are either working on unimportant bugs or your org is screwed. You going rogue certainly isn't the solution.

I see this a lot. Developers place their priorities and biases over actual business direction. And then feel shocked when they are told their contributions weren't impactful. I've shipped enough dead code that nobody really used but it checked a box on a sales call to know that quality software isn't always what we're selling.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#253

Post by matthewmacleod »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #126
eldavido wrote: post #91

To author: you lost the political game. I busted my ass at a startup for years and also lost the political game. So I'm speaking from experience here. You can either get all mad and worked up and pissed off about it, and waste years of your career (as I did) being pissed off, stubborn, and refusing to change. Or figure out how to play. I'd like to think there are places with better politics but I think it's pretty en…

Working for yourself really does mean working for yourself. Yes, you might have customers to answer to, but you can always tell them to fuck off if you want. You suffer the consequences and reap the rewards. Your actions, small or large, matter. Yes, working for a corporation is safer and more stable. In the grand scheme of things, this is the risk-adverse, safe thing to do. The OP may waste years of his life, or he…

That doesn't really follow. As an independent worker, you answer to your clients. As an employee, you answer to your single client. It's basically the same deal.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#254

Post by jrockway »

cletus wrote: post #183

Speaking as a >6 year veteran (Xoogler) some of this rings true. Still a couple of points: > No, managers at Google can’t promote their direct reports. They don’t even get a vote. This isn't quite true. It's true that the promo committee doesn't include your manager and it's that committee's vote that determines your promotion BUT your manager does get to say whether or not they support your promotion. Anecdotally, c…

> committees expect to see manager support so if a potential promotee has it, it doesn't mean a lot

Having been on a promotion committee a number of times, I have to say that manager feedback is generally pretty useless at face-value. A good manager will make sure the right peers write reviews and that the candidate didn't forget anything important. But the candidate can smooth over all of this themselves; my committee promoted someone who's manager feedback read something like "TODO: write this". That reflects poorly on the manager, not the candidate.

> looking to a T4 to T5 promotion

I think he was looking for T5 to T6 actually.

> Project cancellation! Been there twice. It's highly demotivating.

RIP us.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#255

Post by stevenwoo »

Anirudh25 wrote: post #3

As someone who will be entering the industry, I loved your perspective on your job at Google. Also, having read Cal Newport's "So good that they can't ignore you", I couldn't help but notice the hunger for independence in good software developers. Would you recommend newcomers to join smaller unstable( more independence) companies or bigger, more stable( Top 4) companies(lesser independence)?

If you are still in college I would recommend joining your university's co-op program and try to work for companies that have gotten decent reviews from former co-op students. Almost everything this guy learned except the exact details of the process, could be learned while you are still in college so you can make an informed decision on your first real job and probably have the opportunity to continue with whichever company you co-oped with after graduation if that is desired.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#256

Post by geofft »

bdhess wrote: post #247
dep_b wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One example that springs to mind is that I needed some some registry keys with database passwords for a closed source component.

That's not really undebuggable. Process Explorer shows registry calls, and IIRC even marks them in red when the key is missing. Again not arguing that this is efficient, just that doing nothing is less efficient.

I generally assume that when someone says "blocked" they're not literally staring out the window, they're just not operating with anywhere close to the efficiency they should be.

Also it's not clear to me that learning how to use Process Explorer + using it, when that's not your job, is actually meaningfully more efficient than staring out the window all day.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#257

Post by slezakattack »

Vinnl wrote: post #179
dep_b wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a remote team once helping a company in Seattle (that perhaps had a bit of a jock culture problem). I could be stuck for days because following the README in a repo just wasn't enough to get the project to compile and run. Every standup I was telling "I'm completely blocked for the last two days because I cannot run the repo, so I cannot run any tests and at the moment I'm doing absolutely nothing.". To b…

On the one hand it is indeed disappointing that nobody would help you with this. On the other hand, there's a more pro-active role you could have played yourself in this as well. "When everybody is responsible, nobody is" - what often helps is specifically asking people, by name, to sit down with you for a bit and help you get through it. In fact, there are many social group situations in which asking specific people…

This is similar in emergency situations. When you need somebody to call 911, don't ever say "Somebody please call 911!". You have to look at someone, point at them, and tell them "I need you to call 911". Most people will either stand in shock or think that someone else is on it.

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#258

Post by amdavidson »

hackbinary wrote: post #151
dep_b wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a remote team once helping a company in Seattle (that perhaps had a bit of a jock culture problem). I could be stuck for days because following the README in a repo just wasn't enough to get the project to compile and run. Every standup I was telling "I'm completely blocked for the last two days because I cannot run the repo, so I cannot run any tests and at the moment I'm doing absolutely nothing.". To b…

Isn't the Toyota's idea of Kanban supposed to alleviate this? As in if there is some problem with the production line, anyone can push the stop button, and everyone assists?

Just to clarify your point, I believe you are referring to andon[0], the system of alerting people to an issue, rather than kanban[1], a system for inventory management.

In a manner of speaking he did pull the andon cord by speaking up in his team meetings and alerting people in Slack, but the cord means nothing if there is not a culture supporting the alert.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andon_(manufacturing)

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#259

Post by phamilton »

mtlynch wrote: post #215
phamilton wrote: post #64

Writing documentation and fixing bugs is in fact not the bar for a senior software engineer. I don't disagree with the promotion committee on that front. IIRC, Senior Software Engineer is a terminal level. You aren't expected to advance any more once you reach that level. Some do, but you can stay a Senior Engineer for the rest of your career and that's fine. So certainly "can fix bugs and write docs and tests" isn't…

Yeah, I agree with you that you can't build a system where people get promoted to Senior Software Engineer just for fixing bugs and writing documentation. I do think it should be worth something . It doesn't take a senior engineer to fix a bug, but I believe that it is a senior-level skill to be able to identify subtle bugs and pick which ones to fix. The current situation creates perverse incentives because nobody w…

Certainly it counts for something. And I fully support it leading to great reviews for OP. But being good at your job isn't the same as being able to do the next job up the promotion ladder. OP was likely on if the most impactful engineers at his level, but he failed to demonstrate he could perform the job of a Senior Engineer, which has a much greater scope than bug fixes and documentation.

Everyone calls it out as playing politics, but really it's just metric driven career development. If you can't/don't measure it, how do you know it improved? How do you know there was a gap in company value to start with?

Re: Why I Quit Google to Work for Myself

#260

Post by lrem »

robbrit wrote: post #217
lrem wrote: post #49

I'm also a Googler. Upon joining I was also given the keys to an ancient data pipeline, due a redesign for at least five years at that time. The person handing me the keys left almost immediately. My task was also keeping the thing adrift and nursing it back to health, whatever it takes. I did get promoted for that. The metric I used was pretty much the amount of developer time that went into supporting it that was s…

Were you going from junior (L3) to intermediate (L4)? If you were, then the task you described seems appropriate - you don't have to do much to go from L3 to L4. The author of the blog post was going for senior (L5), which you can't get just by maintaining code.

Right, that's probably the difference.
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