African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there • Hacker News Board

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#11

Post by dalbasal » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 1:45 PM UTC

dennyabraham wrote: post #5

dalbasal wrote: post #2

This is tangental.... I've read/heard a bunch about "rewilding" as a concept over the last year, introducing mostly megafaunal populations to their historic ranges, sometimes very historic. Hippos, lions and hyenas in scotland for a particularly quirky example. There are some very tentative efforts currently to reintroduce bison, lynxes and some other species to western europe. Anyway... 350,000 wild african elephant…

It's crazy that we're talking about genetically re-engineering mammoths to help revitalize cold climates when we have such trouble preserving these elephant populations.

erm... Idk. I see this as similar to the "we need to solve poverty before we can go to mars" issues. Things just work independently of one another.

On one hand we have conservation, on the continent with the biggest poverty and governance issues. Wilderness, land-use & habitat issues are key issues. Outside of the artic, there just aren't many habits to support those kinds of far ranging species. African land tracts are unique.

Elsewhere we have rewilding, in its infancy. The US seems to be transitioning from one to the other. Europe is very slowly opening up to the idea.

Elsewhere we have some eccentric ideas about engineered hybrids using paleo-genetics, like the idea of bringing back mammoths. The ecological implications are complete unknowns. It's more of a genetics science project, with futuristic zoo implications. It's far from being a wilderness question at all. Resources don't compete.

Projects like the Russian Pleistocene Park don't really need mammoths. They've had a lot success using "closest available substitute" species instead of extinct ones. Maybe African or Asian elephants can (or can be bred to) tolerate that kind of cold and eat local plants.

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#12

Post by colanderman » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

smithmayowa wrote: post #3

The African poaching crisis is just another bad outcome of foreign influence in Africa, this time from Chinese sponsored poaching. And on the matter of why most foreign influence in Africa turn out bad, I think this is due to the immense difference between the average African attitude and nature to life and living in general, to other races, this immense difference which came to be because unlike other races, African…

Respect for wildlife may well be a cultural thing, but it is assuredly not a racial thing.

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#13

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

dennyabraham wrote: post #5

dalbasal wrote: post #2

This is tangental.... I've read/heard a bunch about "rewilding" as a concept over the last year, introducing mostly megafaunal populations to their historic ranges, sometimes very historic. Hippos, lions and hyenas in scotland for a particularly quirky example. There are some very tentative efforts currently to reintroduce bison, lynxes and some other species to western europe. Anyway... 350,000 wild african elephant…

It's crazy that we're talking about genetically re-engineering mammoths to help revitalize cold climates when we have such trouble preserving these elephant populations.

Some of the decline in elephant population is attributable with competition with humans - we grow crops, elephants like to eat them.

I'd imagine a mammoth eating sedge in Siberia wouldn't be in as direct competition for resources as an elephant.

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#14

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

cronjobma wrote: post #6

I wonder if having for-profit organisations/startups who's core mission it is to protect these fantastic animals would be more successful vs non-profits or government projects. Not necessary to make a buck, but in many cases, for-profit organisations get more done because of the constant pressure they feel to perform.

Maybe not the best idea.

https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/jm9vjp/how-a-thai-tiger-s...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-animal-s...

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#15

Post by skvale » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #2

This is tangental.... I've read/heard a bunch about "rewilding" as a concept over the last year, introducing mostly megafaunal populations to their historic ranges, sometimes very historic. Hippos, lions and hyenas in scotland for a particularly quirky example. There are some very tentative efforts currently to reintroduce bison, lynxes and some other species to western europe. Anyway... 350,000 wild african elephant…

There are solid arguments that it could have positive environmental consequences too: https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_worl...

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#16

Post by wavefunction » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

dennyabraham wrote: post #5

dalbasal wrote: post #2

This is tangental.... I've read/heard a bunch about "rewilding" as a concept over the last year, introducing mostly megafaunal populations to their historic ranges, sometimes very historic. Hippos, lions and hyenas in scotland for a particularly quirky example. There are some very tentative efforts currently to reintroduce bison, lynxes and some other species to western europe. Anyway... 350,000 wild african elephant…

It's crazy that we're talking about genetically re-engineering mammoths to help revitalize cold climates when we have such trouble preserving these elephant populations.

Probably easier for Canada and the US and the Nordic countries to protect these reintroduced species than some of the more desperate and developing areas of the world. Russia, well I'm not sure. They'd probably benefit the most from the reintroduction of these species but I'm not familiar enough with Russian attitudes towards this sort of project.

It would be amazing to be able to see the megafauna in the wild though, along with protecting the wildlife we currently have.

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#17

Post by Can_Not » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

cronjobma wrote: post #6

I wonder if having for-profit organisations/startups who's core mission it is to protect these fantastic animals would be more successful vs non-profits or government projects. Not necessary to make a buck, but in many cases, for-profit organisations get more done because of the constant pressure they feel to perform.

> for-profit organisations get more done because of the constant pressure they feel to perform.

How is it possible that changing the primary existential goal from "save animals" to "make profits" will lead to more efficient animal saving rather than loss of efficiency in animal saving for the sake of profit? That seems like the exact opposite of what would happen.

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#18

Post by crpatino » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #11

dennyabraham wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that we're talking about genetically re-engineering mammoths to help revitalize cold climates when we have such trouble preserving these elephant populations.

erm... Idk. I see this as similar to the "we need to solve poverty before we can go to mars" issues. Things just work independently of one another. On one hand we have conservation, on the continent with the biggest poverty and governance issues. Wilderness, land-use & habitat issues are key issues. Outside of the artic, there just aren't many habits to support those kinds of far ranging species. African land tracts…

Absolutelly!!! Solving poverty is sooo boring, and we nerds rather like to play with our toys.

There's also the profit motive, of course. Not to say that altruism does not exist, but if poverty was a problem that could be solved by market forces alone, there would be no poor people in developed countries and wars would be waged between the superpowers in order to duke it out whos going to go and help the last remanents of miserables in 4th world backwaters.

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#19

Post by crpatino » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

I am surprised that nobody has raised this issue?

If elephants are smart enough to recognize an enemy, avoid it, and warn other elephants that have not seen this enemy first hand... do they qualify as people?

They certainly seem at least as smart as dolphins, and their trunks allow for a crude form of tool manipulation that dolphins lack. We humans define our personhood in terms not just of raw intelligence, but also by our ability to modify our environments, so...

Re: African elephants are migrating to safety, telling each other how to get there

#20

Post by ancap » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #14

cronjobma wrote: post #6

I wonder if having for-profit organisations/startups who's core mission it is to protect these fantastic animals would be more successful vs non-profits or government projects. Not necessary to make a buck, but in many cases, for-profit organisations get more done because of the constant pressure they feel to perform.

Maybe not the best idea. https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/jm9vjp/how-a-thai-tiger-s... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-animal-s...

Not sure about the thai tiger sanctuary but the referenced Lion's Gate Sanctuary was a 501(c)(3) according to page 3 of http://www.elbertcounty-co.gov/docs/SU-16-0019%20LIONS%20GAT...