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How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

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Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#181
post #167
post #134

Suppose you were a small startup based in America, accepting online payments from users/advertisers using American platforms or financial institutions. Suppose you make no effort to comply with GPDR - what realistic consequences can you face? I suspect that this is the kind of thing which larger/established companies would worry about. If you're a seed/series-A startup, it seems like you have far more important thing…

If you have a customer from the EU, you must comply with GPDR. Full stop. Also, if any component of your cloud ecosystem(AWS, GCS, etc.) are based in the EU, you must comply with GPDR. Which in today's world means almost everyone is affected by this. Make sure those "American" platforms you speak have every single component of their infrastructure based physically in America. The whole thing may be difficult to enfor…

So what's the definition of "customer from the EU"?

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#182
post #107

How are people planning on implementing GDPR at the DB level? What about DB backups?

This is a great question that unfortunately doesn't have a good answer. Ignoring the question of backups, GDPR's requirements have the implication of imposing a workload on database engines that, in most modern architectures, is either pathologically expensive or not currently possible. Some companies are approaching this from a "best effort" standpoint rather than conforming to the spirit of the regulation because the technology simply isn't there to make it feasible for some cases. I've been working on this problem for the last year and this is (IMO) a major gap in the regulation; it presumes that something is possible that isn't for existing applications that are otherwise universally viewed as harmless and permissible.

Scalable database engines that can support the letter of the GDPR in terms of data handling don't really exist. This is not a problem that can be trivially solved by patching an existing database engine; the requirements of strict GDPR data handling violates fundamental design assumptions of common database architectures. If you look at, for example, high-assurance databases which have a similar set of requirements for data handling as GDPR, they are never used when at all possible because their performance and scalability is terrible. (These databases are conventional architectures with GDPR-like data handling controls added.)

A database engine capable of strict conformance with GDPR while maintaining vaguely comparable performance and scalability relative to what we are used to would require a comprehensive new database engine design from first principles. This is something only a small number of people are capable of designing and implementation would be a very substantial engineering effort. Possibly a business opportunity -- one of the reasons I've been thinking about it, having worked on high-assurance databases in the past.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#183
post #164
post #134

Suppose you were a small startup based in America, accepting online payments from users/advertisers using American platforms or financial institutions. Suppose you make no effort to comply with GPDR - what realistic consequences can you face? I suspect that this is the kind of thing which larger/established companies would worry about. If you're a seed/series-A startup, it seems like you have far more important thing…

Explicitly banning Eurozone citizens from using the service is the easiest solution I have thought of.

The collective economic effect of that will be massive. Please do. And realize that you are ceding the single largest market to your competition.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#184
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You do not have a place of business in the EU, you do not transact any business there to begin with so you are free to ignore the law. " Wrong. If you have a customer from the EU or any component of your infrastructure in the EU, you must comply with GPDR.

I'm not saying he's not in scope and should not comply I'm saying he can get away with ignoring it in practice, which was what he was asking about.

He'd be exposed to increased risk by not complying(lawsuits, criminal action, etc.). It's based on his risk tolerance, the problem is it's hard to quantify at this point.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#185
post #174

Will the GDPR eventually make bitcoin or other immutable public distributed databases illegal in the EU? Do you have default judgements on thousands john doe node operators around the world? Will EU ISPs be required to censor any kind of blockchain node eventually when someone has a GDPR complaint for that network? Will we arrest teenagers for running ethereum miners on their gaming computers after all of this?

Will any information that enables identification of the individual (or the other ancillary information spelled out in the article and regulations) be in the blockchain? If not, doesn't sound like it. Here is one way to think of this. Any EU citizen has a "right to be forgotten". If there is nothing in your records to identify that person, the you don't need to provide that ability.

There are already people using blockchain for proof of identity, proof of ownership, etc.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#186
post #134

Suppose you were a small startup based in America, accepting online payments from users/advertisers using American platforms or financial institutions. Suppose you make no effort to comply with GPDR - what realistic consequences can you face? I suspect that this is the kind of thing which larger/established companies would worry about. If you're a seed/series-A startup, it seems like you have far more important thing…

The realistic consequences would probably be the following:

1) When you grow sufficiently large to go global, it will suddenly start to matter a lot, as EU is one of the largest markets worldwide. In the best case scenario you'd have to change your processes and systems to comply (i.e. you'd have technical debt which you could've avoided if you did it properly in the first place); in the worst case you'd have some complaints from EU users resulting in fines that aren't enforced yet but would be as soon as you'd want to actually get money from EU. This would be a meaningful impact to your valuation at that point.

2) As the risks implied in the first part have an impact on your valuation if you succeed and go global (which is the only scenario that matters to investors, the exit valuation about which they're thinking), you'd expect this compliance to be included in the due diligence done by series B/C investors and any acquisitions; if you've made no effort to comply, this will result in a lower valuation in those rounds of funding.

If you're a high-growth startup whose valuation is not based on current revenue but on the (long) future market size and you declare that you're choosing to be incompatible with, say, 25% of the global market (to a very rough approximation, EU revenue share is something like that for many major tech companies), then investors will discount your future value (and thus current value) by 25%. So at the very least this is something that you should have on your roadmap for investors i.e. "we're planning to do that diligence and related work in quarter X after we've done A, B and C" instead of simply ignoring the issue.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#187
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying he's not in scope and should not comply I'm saying he can get away with ignoring it in practice, which was what he was asking about.

He'd be exposed to increased risk by not complying(lawsuits, criminal action, etc.). It's based on his risk tolerance, the problem is it's hard to quantify at this point.

Based on a pretty thorough bit of search I can confidently say that no small (or even mid sized) US company has ever been fined or any executives detained or extradited because of breaking an EU law that would have not normally resulted in a criminal conviction.

The EU tends to go after the larger entities and tends to fine rather than arrest.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#188
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Professionals in engineering or the trades have to know the regulations that govern their industry and abide by them. What many SVers call "innovation", other industries would call "reckless". How embarrassing for us! EDIT: In terms of regulation, we're practically chiropractors.

> No. Professionals in engineering or the trades have to know the regulations that govern their industry and abide by them. Eh, not substantially or consistently more than in software. It's possible to cherry-pick examples where engineers in other fields are more aware of relevant regulations, but overall, it's roughly comparable. I'm generally very critical of the move-fast-and-break-things mentality, but engineers…

American engineer building a bridge or tunnel in EU is certainly going to know EU regulations. An EE designing circuits for EU needs to know about lead-free solder requirements. On the other side, Mies van der Rohe needed to work with a US-certified architect to build the Seagrams.

Having been in the software industry for a while, it is often discouraging to see how both explicitly and often inadvertently move-fast-and-break-things has resulted in some pretty bad software industry wide.

Just look at the sense of most of the comments here--there seems to be a consensus of how to get around this, or how it doesn't apply to me.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#189
One more interesting thought. If you are using ad provider/tracker/data reseler X/... located in USA which is GDPR compliant and is doing bussiness with EU, and you are feeding them with toxic information you didn't get consent for, the EU can pick on them. As you have damaged their bussiness they can sue you. In USA.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#190
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my company seems to be going on a encrypt everything spree. I am not sure how GDPR requires encryption. Can you be GDPR complaint ( in theory) with zero encryption?

Of course—if you don't store personal data (trivially). In fact, encryption (security) is mostly orthogonal to how you track and handle personal and sensitive data (privacy protection). You could encrypt everything and still be wildly GDPR non-compliant, if the encrypted information you're storing lacks clear purpose and explicit consent.

To further emphasize your point You could encrypt everything and still be wildly GDPR non-compliant, we need to be able to respond to a request by each and every individual user to delete the information that they no longer wish us to carry.
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