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Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

reuters.com

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Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#91

Post by cromwellian »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42
Slansitartop wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while living costs are low. Are you sure? From what I've seen, Shanghai real estate is comparably expensive to SF.

Only if you buy. Rents definitely aren’t. Shanghai and Shenzhen are worse than Beijing on rents, but not incredibly so, you won’t find $4000/month one bedroom apartments unless it’s some kind of luxury skyscraper. $2000/month for a nice two bedroom is easy, you could probably go lower than that and still be in a decent location.

I had a place in 老西门 that was about $3000, not a luxury skyscraper, but owned by a French landlord, I think the closer you are to large ex-pat populations, the more expensive.

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#93

Post by dageshi »

bsaul wrote: post #88
dageshi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming number 1 priority of the Chinese Communist party is to remain in power and remain in control. Everything comes second place to that. Economically it would make sense to do what you say, but to do so would be an unacceptable loss of control over the ability to monitor and curtail communication in China, so they won't do it. Additionally, they do certainly have the ability to detect and shutdown VPN's…

"remain in control" is also what i thought, but then i changed my mind and now think the reason is now (almost) purely economical. The reason is that : - google maps is blocked, but apple maps isn't - google is blocked, but yahoo and bing aren't - youtube is blocked, but other video sites such as rutube.ru are accessible, and just searching sensitive keywords led me to things like that https://rutube.ru/video/49d364d…

Google very publically and explicitly said they would not abide by China's rules regarding their services about a decade ago. I wouldn't be surprised if those other services have local chinese servers which are serving the requests from China and are effectively subject to chinese laws.

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#94

Post by duncanawoods »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #71
duncanawoods wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language is pretty poor - "bait" "lure" etc. They might as well have written ITS A TRAP. As I read it, I felt enough spin to not fully trust the point about maids at the end. Was it cherry picked item from a whole slew of legal relaxations for its shame value or is it really an isolated, important and notable act presented dispassionately? I can't tell.

Those aren’t very strong words, I don’t get the same word sentiment as you do, I’m also a native English speaker.

Bait specifically, is a pejorative form of incentive. It has many negative meanings including deception, trapping, tormenting, teasing, bait-and-switch etc. There is a range of less emotive language to choose from and I can't read such a thing without assuming intentionality.

For example, have you ever heard of Google "baiting employees with free food"? I haven't. To do so is to describe setting up a trap. Instead its positive language: perks, incentives, benefits etc.

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#95

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bsaul wrote: post #80
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNY isn’t really over for another week or even two. The lull in traffic usually lasts for around three weeks. Even if the shops are open, many haven’t returned from vacation yet. Pm2.5 is the big killer that everyone is worried about these days. PM10 is larger particles like dust which should be less of a problem in SH. Historical data is included on site, but no easy way to compare them. There isn’t a place in shang…

The big circles around shanghai are a completely different beast than just "major road". Just like Paris "périphérique" is in a league of its own. I've had a 6h foot walk just 2 days ago in shanghai (inside the first circle, travelling all around the city), and i can tell you the amount of dust i inhaled was nothing compare to what i'm feeling when i walk inside Paris. Now maybe CNY is a huge factor indeed, unfortuna…

I've been to SH plenty of time and I know about the ring road topology (same as Beijing actually). But if you look at the map, it just gets worse, not better, as you get farther from the center.

CNY is a great time to visit Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, and Guangzhou, since people there either (a) go home (they aren't locals) or (b) go on vacation somewhere else far away. CNY practically lasts longer than the official golden week, so traffic is light as well.

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#96

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cromwellian wrote: post #91
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you buy. Rents definitely aren’t. Shanghai and Shenzhen are worse than Beijing on rents, but not incredibly so, you won’t find $4000/month one bedroom apartments unless it’s some kind of luxury skyscraper. $2000/month for a nice two bedroom is easy, you could probably go lower than that and still be in a decent location.

I had a place in 老西门 that was about $3000, not a luxury skyscraper, but owned by a French landlord, I think the closer you are to large ex-pat populations, the more expensive.

Ya, if you are in the French Concession in Shanghai, it can get a bit pricey I guess. Beijing really has nothing like that, well I guess you could try living in Sanlitun or something.

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#97

Post by seanmcdirmid »

duncanawoods wrote: post #94
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren’t very strong words, I don’t get the same word sentiment as you do, I’m also a native English speaker.

Bait specifically, is a pejorative form of incentive. It has many negative meanings including deception, trapping, tormenting, teasing, bait-and-switch etc. There is a range of less emotive language to choose from and I can't read such a thing without assuming intentionality. For example, have you ever heard of Google "baiting employees with free food"? I haven't. To do so is to describe setting up a trap. Instead it…

It really depends on the context. For example "baiting employees with free food" seems completely innocuous to me. Everyone knows what is up, nothing nefarious is going on.

Journalism involves using colorful words to make the article colorful enough to read. Even the Chinese media does this, it isn't just an American thing. Articles that aren't read are worthless.

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#98

Post by duncanawoods »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #97
duncanawoods wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bait specifically, is a pejorative form of incentive. It has many negative meanings including deception, trapping, tormenting, teasing, bait-and-switch etc. There is a range of less emotive language to choose from and I can't read such a thing without assuming intentionality. For example, have you ever heard of Google "baiting employees with free food"? I haven't. To do so is to describe setting up a trap. Instead it…

It really depends on the context. For example "baiting employees with free food" seems completely innocuous to me. Everyone knows what is up, nothing nefarious is going on. Journalism involves using colorful words to make the article colorful enough to read. Even the Chinese media does this, it isn't just an American thing. Articles that aren't read are worthless.

Hmm. Its interesting to hear a different view but I can't agree. Language has tremendous power and using it to signal to the reader whether they should approve of something in what might claim to be objective factual reporting is quite insidious to me.

I strongly dislike the "journalism using colorful words" and China comparison as a defence of deception and manipulation. Our standards should be higher. Plenty of room for colour with good quality writing.

(edit: just to clarify the article is question raised my spin flags but only to a level that is within the lazy-writing/unconscious-bias zone too)

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#99

Post by orangehour »

baybal2 wrote: post #50

Anybody want a mini-AMA? Worked with Chinese for bigger part of my career and did two long term on-site consulting contracts. I lived in both Shanghai and Shenzhen.

How hard would it be to find a position in China if I don't speak Chinese? Are there certain places I should look for information on this? Job websites?

Re: Chinese capital dangles carrots to lure foreign talent to its Silicon Valley

#100

Post by baybal2 »

wafflesraccoon wrote: post #81
baybal2 wrote: post #50

Anybody want a mini-AMA? Worked with Chinese for bigger part of my career and did two long term on-site consulting contracts. I lived in both Shanghai and Shenzhen.

Would you do it again? I hear mostly good things about living in China once you get past the culture shock.

If there will be a good offer? Yes, without any doubt.

Getting a good offer is what makes the biggest difference.

There are good jobs on the table, and they are ok for your first take on Chinese job market. $3k to $4k net income is what you can get as a developer in an in demand niche with 4~5 years experience.

For me, after 6 years, just "simply good jobs" are not enough. They have to be really great. Something like with a clear road to above $4k $5k net income salaries, or $40 per hour or more short term contracts.

Getting such offers is totally possible after few years there making connections and proving yourself.

About quality of life and livability. I had zero complaints for last few years. Best districts of major cities in China score more on livability for me than most of Europe and America. See, the difference there is you can have great life with just mid-to-high ordinary job there. An equal lifestyle option in fancy parts of SoCal and London is virtually impossible without above 2nd percentile salary and good perks.

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