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Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

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Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#101
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. That's really close. Your numbers are off though. Firstly it's ~40ms up to the bird if it's right above you, then 40 down to the base station if it is next door to your house. If it's on the other side of the world and has to travel around the whole mesh, add a hundred ms at best. Then from the base station to the destination - which could be anywhere in the world, and back, then back up to the bird, then back d…

I make it 4ms [1], not 40ms. [1] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=800mi+%2F+speed+of+ligh...

It’ll never be 4ms in the best case though. Both fiber and radio signals are a lot less than 100% of speed of light.

(Know you likely know this, but not everyone does)

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#102
post #73

Is there an estimate on the magnitude of the maximum total bandwidth achievable with a LEO satellite, both for a smartphone client and for a fixed home antenna? How far would it be to 4G and gigabit fiber respectively?

It's not the bandwidth I'm curious about, I'm wondering what the latency will be like. Satellite connections usually have bad latency because of obvious physics laws limitation. This can be bad for real time apps. Still great for most web applications though.

They were talking to Astronauts going to moon with resources way more smaller than this.

There is a saying that goes like "To build fast software, use a slow computer".

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#103

Musk is talking about the OSI layer 1 and layer 2 of the satellite network, which by definition needs to be something unique and custom. Nobody has ever built a LEO dual-satellite-CPE make-before-break architecture before. The closest thing is the o3b architecture which is intended for very large, costly customer terminals. This will still speak ipv4 and ipv6 just fine. To gain a better understanding of why this need…

For people who're not technical engineers and without the knowledge to understand all the technical details:

- Does it make sense to make a phone that acts as a receiver (assuming the phone is outdoors), because it's one fewer device to buy and power, or does it bring down the cost significantly to have a fixed unit installed on your terrace?

- If we want to provide remote regions with Internet access, would you go with Starlink or O3b? Would your answer change if the requirement was affordable internet access, no matter the speed?

- Under what conditions can Starlink or O3b compete with terrestrial internet in cities?

Basically, I'm trying to understand the impact these programs might have on the world, not the technicalities.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#104

Musk is talking about the OSI layer 1 and layer 2 of the satellite network, which by definition needs to be something unique and custom. Nobody has ever built a LEO dual-satellite-CPE make-before-break architecture before. The closest thing is the o3b architecture which is intended for very large, costly customer terminals. This will still speak ipv4 and ipv6 just fine. To gain a better understanding of why this need…

For people who're not technical engineers and without the knowledge to understand all the technical details: - Does it make sense to make a phone that acts as a receiver (assuming the phone is outdoors), because it's one fewer device to buy and power, or does it bring down the cost significantly to have a fixed unit installed on your terrace? - If we want to provide remote regions with Internet access, would you go w…

This isn't going to be for phone sized things. it'll be more like the size of a direcTV dish but in a very different shape. The system design and technical requirements to have something that moves around and is handheld is very different than a fixed CPE that's aimed upwards.

For your second question, both are suitable, but in different markets. O3B is intended to replace high cost Ku and C-band transponder capacity for telecoms and ISPs that are in a place economically impossible to reach with PTP microwave or fiber. The smallest terrestrial o3b terminal is a pair of 1.8 meter motorized tracking antennas semi-permanently installed on concrete pads. O3B gives an ISP one big fat pipe back to the terrestrial internet in somewhere with good connectivity, and then that ISP can distribute service around their region using whatever technology they want to use, or have access to (PTP microwave, point to multipoint, fixed LTE, DOCIS3.0, various types of FTTH, etc).

o3b only functions at latitude +/-45. Starlink and similar systems will be in polar orbits, so with network architecture for satellite-to-satellite relay, there is the possibility of truly global coverage (as Iridium service works equally well at the north pole, in remote parts of Nunavut, at the south pole, in Tierra del Fuego, etc).

It will not be competitive in cities against terrestrial based infrastructure. Given advancements in how much data can be shoved through old copper (DOCSIS3/3.1, VDSL2 30a, g.fast) and various active ethernet FTTH and GPON FTTH, those will have much greater throughput. A dozen starlink satellites will have less aggregate data throughput than what it is possible to push down two strands of singlemode fiber.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#105
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* facepalm Too late to edit. Misplaced the decimal point. Should have noticed that if 22k is 120, 800 can't possibly be 40. Duh. Still, the actual latency is going to be very dependent on the distance to the base station. If it's nearby then shit, yeah, that will be within 20ms of 5G. Point conceded @jsjohnst.

It doesn’t make sense to bounce a signal over North America / Europe / etc all around on the mesh. The best course is to send it to the ground almost immediately (aka So yes, my point still stands for the majority use case. Also, to be clear, I was making following claims: 1) bandwidth on par with initial 5G deployments (aka up to 1gb/sec offering) 2) Latency on par or better than existing LTE networks.

Yeah, my skepticism was definitely misplaced. I guess I didn't internalise just how close that is! Mea culpa.

This could open astounding possibilities if the prices are set within any kind of consumer-affordable level. I'm fairly interested in going on some long sail journeys, for example, but the total lack of connectivity (without a ruinously expensive and hence rare conventional satphone) gives me a lot of pause. What if something happens at work, or worse yet with my family, and i'm literally uncontactable, hundreds of miles offshore somewhere for a week? I know that for some people that's the point, but I wouldn't be able to stop worrying about it.

If your prognosis is correct then not only might it become feasible to be contactable on a boat for a reasonable outlay, you might even have friggin' broadband. For me and I suspect many others that's a very exciting idea.

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