Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#81

Post by closeparen » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #60

JustAnotherPat wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC is actually amongst the lowest for Cost of Living adjusted salaries out of all the major tech cities: https://hired.com/state-of-salaries-2017 Rent isn't exactly cheap in NYC

The problem with these numbers is that adjusting an entire salary for cost of living only makes sense for people living paycheck to paycheck. The real question is how much wealth a tech worker can accumulate in each city. If you're saving 10% a year no matter where you live, you're best optimizing for salary and ignoring cost of living.

Except that saving 10% makes you a homeowner in some places and a roommate in others.

If you view your job as temporary pain and plan to relocate or retire before starting “real life,” that makes sense. If you’re trying to build a long-term sustainable and fulfilling life that includes a tech job, not so much. Nominal value in a bank account is useless; you need purchasing power.

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#82

Post by humanrebar » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:36 PM UTC

adrianparsons wrote: post #72

humanrebar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think New York is good but overrated as a food scene, especially dollar for dollar.

I live in NYC and the main difference I noticed about food in CA is how produce-centric it is. NYC food is incredible, but eating out usually means meat, cheese, and bread.

Even if you love meat, cheese, and bread, there are other cities that do it as well (pizza debates aside) or better. For example, the taco scene in NYC basically doesn't exist. The burrito scene is Chipotle-style places.

Frankly, the rent is just too high to be too innovative at a reasonable price.

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#83

Post by nkassis » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #31

acconrad wrote: post #18

What is Boston doing wrong? In the 80s thanks to the 128 Tech Row, it was on par with Silicon Valley as the top spot, then it lost ground and now NYC is considered #2? We have the highest concentration of collegiate tech talent, the same weather as NYC (obviously worse than SV), lower cost of living than both cities, and there's been a ton of investment in real estate for tech companies in the Seaport District. Too l…

All of the Big4 are in Kendall Square (on the same street even!). Bunches of neat startups out of Harvard/MIT. I think its a pretty good tech scene all things considered, more notable companies than the tech hub I grew up in IMHO.

Apparently Amazon moving to seaport with a fairly large footprint. https://www.boston.com/news/business/2018/01/10/amazon-is-se...

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#84

Post by mbesto » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #76

mdolon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. The vast majority of people I met at coffee shops, restaurants or bars in the city worked in tech. Living in Manhattan (East Village) and Brooklyn provided a completely different experience. It was a rare to meet people who work in tech. In both circumstances, I haven't been going out of my way to try to meet people in any specific industry.

> Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. No need to rely on anecdotes though. According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population. If the people you have met predominantly worked in tech, it is likely due to a bubble you created yourself. Perhaps, for example…

> the majority of the population outside of tech cannot afford to spend time at those coffee shops and restaurants?

That's probably the parent's point - your likely to see more people in your cohort in NYC that don't work in tech then those that do.

> According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population.

SF is just one part of the bay area. Head down to PAMPA and MV/Cupertino where the big employers are and I'd be willing to bet that % is much higher.

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#85

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

yanslookup wrote: post #59

caiob wrote: post #28

> On Wall Street, new computer engineers get hired at $120,000, but senior managers can make $400,000 plus the bonuses Wall Street hands out every winter This always bums me out. Why do managers make so much more money than engineers?

A group of 5 engineers, left to their own devices, would probably produce about $100k worth of value. An effective manager can extract two million dollars worth of value out of those same 5 engineers. If you don't believe this, you may have never had a great manager.

[deleted]

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#86

Post by nkassis » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

forgotpwagain wrote: post #27

acconrad wrote: post #18

What is Boston doing wrong? In the 80s thanks to the 128 Tech Row, it was on par with Silicon Valley as the top spot, then it lost ground and now NYC is considered #2? We have the highest concentration of collegiate tech talent, the same weather as NYC (obviously worse than SV), lower cost of living than both cities, and there's been a ton of investment in real estate for tech companies in the Seaport District. Too l…

Different kind of tech. Boston is the world's capital of biotech.

Boston has a lot more than biotech. You have a fairly large amount of internet companies (beyond the top 4 names, you have companies like for example Akamai), and robotics is a big field. (Kiva now part of Amazon, Boston Dynamics). Other engineering fields are well represented too.

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#87

Post by geebee » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

yanslookup wrote: post #75

adrr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could say the same thing about athletes and coaches but who makes more in pro sports?

Athletes collectively bargain. Either way, coaching still matters in sports.

Of course coaching matters! The point, I believe, is that the relationship between management and creative can be mutually beneficial, with both parties earning considerably more through a partnership than they would on their own.

The fact that developers become much more valuable with a good manager doesn't, in itself, explain why managers are paid more.

For example, let's say a manager without a good developer would be worth 100k of value a year, and a developer without a good manager would produce 100k, but working together, they produce 500k. There is now a surplus.

Now, if it's easy to be a developer and very difficult to be a manager, then it would make sense that the manager would capture most of the surplus, because he or she could always just go and find a new talented developer to work with. The Rolling Stones can find a new manager more easily than a manager can find a new Rolling Stones.

However, ahem, it seems to be the managers constantly bemoaning the difficulty of hiring good developers. Share a bit more of that surplus, and you may find those hiring woes aren't quite so woeful?

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#88

Post by kevstev » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

caiob wrote: post #28

> On Wall Street, new computer engineers get hired at $120,000, but senior managers can make $400,000 plus the bonuses Wall Street hands out every winter This always bums me out. Why do managers make so much more money than engineers?

This is changing. Maybe less so in banks, but at my hedge fund, its more about individual contribution rather than how many people you manage. We are also a bit different in that we are actively modeling ourselves like a tech company.

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#89

Post by whack » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

replicatorblog wrote: post #61

"official" FTEs is one way to slice it, but kind of dumb. Seattle is home to two of the five biggest tech companies in the US. Boston has had an IPO every year for the last ten years that exceeds any in NYC history. LA has had the only 11-digit IPO in the last five years, outside of the bay area. It's also capturing the zeitgeist in a way that NYC no longer does (that's subjective, of course, but I'd debate it). Just…

All the criteria you chose seem like bad proxies for the things that really matter. I would count the following as the fundamental metrics that really count.

- Average (high-end) programmer salary

- Amount of VC funding

- Total number of full-time tech workers

The 1st and 2nd criteria determine how attractive the city is, for employees and founders respectively.

The 3rd criteria determines how much clustering/network effects the city enjoys.

On all 3 criteria, NYC is either 1st or 2nd. NYC hedge funds have bid up programmer salaries to levels that are virtually impossible to get anywhere else besides SFBA. The data on VC-funding shows NYC as a solid #2, only behind SFBA. And the linked article shows that in terms of networking potential, NYC is #2 as well.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/10/venture-capital-concent...

Re: Tech takes over: New York is the sector's second city

#90

Post by toephu2 » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #76

mdolon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. The vast majority of people I met at coffee shops, restaurants or bars in the city worked in tech. Living in Manhattan (East Village) and Brooklyn provided a completely different experience. It was a rare to meet people who work in tech. In both circumstances, I haven't been going out of my way to try to meet people in any specific industry.

> Having lived in both SOMA and the Mission, I wholeheartedly disagree. No need to rely on anecdotes though. According to San Francisco’s Controller’s Office, a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry[1]. That is an unquestionably small minority of the overall population. If the people you have met predominantly worked in tech, it is likely due to a bubble you created yourself. Perhaps, for example…

"a little over 6% of the population work in the tech industry"

That was in 2013. 5 years ago. That article doesn't provide a source for that number either, it simply quotes the chief economist for San Francisco’s Controller’s Office who also doesn't provide a source. I'm sure the number is much higher now.