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KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

kaiostech.com

151–160 of 165 posts

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#151
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define success? This is not a competitor to iOS/Android, it's for cheap low-end devices, which is still a sizable market. Try running Android on 256MB of RAM...

My first Android phone only had 192 MB of RAM.

Funny story, so did mine. It was a nightmare. That was almost a decade ago. If you want an experience as bad on modern Android, you need 512MB ram.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#152
post #47

I'd really like to see a truly open alternative on the mobile space. The biggest issue is the hardware. It's just not standardized and there's no incentive to do so. It's really preventing the way Linux took off on developers desktops back in the late 90s/early 2000s. FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch looked promising, but they lacked good hardware to run on. I'd really like to try Plasma, but I don't like any of the device…

Speaking as someone not at all involved in this space, I'd love for Google to take smartphones waaaay more seriously. I feel like in an effort to make Android easy to adopt and customize they have let the "feel" of Android suffer. I hate bloatware on every new phone. I hate that phones differ so greatly. Something invaluable to me on an iPhone is the switch to silence alerts. I wish Google would define a "standard" l…

> Something invaluable to me on an iPhone is the switch to silence alerts.

OnePlus's phones have that, and it's great. Of course, OnePlus also have some nasty privacy failures … but then, Apple have some nasty openness failures.

I'd love to be able to just buy a decent phone, with a replaceable battery (because the batteries fail first), which I, not some vendor, own.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#153
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because writing a whole OS from scratch competing with giant companies and having to somehow magically go from 0 to a million apps (while being unpopular due to the few apps) is a good place to be in? Instead, they could have gotten all the Android apps and the popularity of Android essentially for free. It's even possible they could have overtaken Google and became the effective steward of the Android platform, sinc…

>Instead, they could have gotten all the Android apps and the popularity of Android essentially for free. No they wouldn't have. They would not get Google Play Services and your MicroG "solution" is ridiculous from a commercial perspective and a violation from a TOS perspective that would be shut down by Google. >It's even possible they could have overtaken Google and became the effective steward of the Android platf…

> They would not get Google Play Services

If I have Firefox and thus can load up any Google web page, do I need Google Play Services?

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open secret: FirefoxOS "failed" because it could not get a few super popular services in the targeted markets to write apps for it. It's very hard to break the chicken and egg issue without that support when bootstrapping a new mobile OS.

This is what I truly hope PWAs can solve. If they are 'good enough', they will bridge the gap for new platforms until they're popular enough for companies to develop for directly.

The problem is that a web app can never be good enough, because a web app can never be secure. I simply can't trust my private data to a PWA, because the developer can ship me malicious JavaScript at any time. With open source I can compile and audit code myself (or rely on others to do so for me); with an app store I can rely on a vendor to audit code; with a web app I have no assurance.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#155
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> growing app development on the "hybrid" stack at Ionic That is not the metric. Is fast-UI, not how many devs are lazy or don't know how do native. I invest more than 2 months researching the space this year (after several other times before), and seriously, only iOS is fast enough for html/webview. Android is SUPER slow. I mean, i get your ionic sample app and run it on my test device. I touch once... and wait a ce…

That’s a gross exaggeration re: Android touch delay. You are correct though, Android is not as performant as iOS in nearly every category, including JS/web. And no, raw UI perf isn’t the metric for most of the market. Many teams are successful with the stack and deciding to use it, considering it to have perfectly acceptable performance for their needs considering the benefits of using the web stack (as we can attest…

I don't mean touch delays, I mean the android UI get stuck for so long to be non-usable for any than simple stuff.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, they could have gotten all the Android apps and the popularity of Android essentially for free. No they wouldn't have. They would not get Google Play Services and your MicroG "solution" is ridiculous from a commercial perspective and a violation from a TOS perspective that would be shut down by Google. >It's even possible they could have overtaken Google and became the effective steward of the Android platf…

> They would not get Google Play Services If I have Firefox and thus can load up any Google web page, do I need Google Play Services?

As a strange event, I actually upvoted bitmapbrother, we agreed on something! As he says, MicroG is a hack, and there's no reasonable point where someone is going to take stewardship of Android away from Google. (Other than antimonopoly action.)

There's no point in having Android if you can't run Android apps, and most Android apps users want are now dependent on Google's proprietary libraries (Play Services). So why would you want an Android fork if you aren't going to be able to run Android apps? Might as well go with KaiOS at that point.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it use closed-source firmware in the radio baseband? And is there a physical switch between the baseband and main system board?

The campaign page [0] says there will be a kill switch: > Hardware Kill Switches for Camera, Microphone, WiFi/Bluetooth, and Baseband but is somewhat unclear on the baseband firmware: > The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware, but a free software kernel driver. [0] https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Thanks. I somehow didn't see "baseband" in the list of switched stuff. Impressive!

About baseband, as others note, I get that it's a minefield.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not. Just tried to schedule a disk check on reboot and had to scour a bunch of pages to find something that might work. No std msc or service manager gui available either. Some of these existed but were lost in a CADT.

Sometimes finding it difficult to do something is an indication you might have a suboptimal work flow. You can get plenty of info about the health of the drive while the system is running. There isn't much reason to run a filesystem check unless something is wrong. Speaking of services it's extremely easy to query which services are running and enable and disable stuff. Plus there aren't 85 different things running.…

I’m well aware of the options. The drive isn’t the problem. This thread was about usability and I did happen to need a filesytem check.

I’m not a fan of Microsoft biz practices but if you think Linux has nothing to learn from windows (especially on the desktop) you are mistaken.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes finding it difficult to do something is an indication you might have a suboptimal work flow. You can get plenty of info about the health of the drive while the system is running. There isn't much reason to run a filesystem check unless something is wrong. Speaking of services it's extremely easy to query which services are running and enable and disable stuff. Plus there aren't 85 different things running.…

Here is another gui: https://rthomsen6.wordpress.com/2016/12/18/introducing-syste...

These look nice but the big problem is that they may not be compatible and maintained over the long term because they are not a std part of the desktop.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#160

I have actually developed for this platform. KaiOS powers Jio Phone and Reliance JIO is by far their largest customer (and also an investor from what I know). The thing I like about this platform is that it runs most web technologies. You can thank Firefox OS for that. We used React ecosystem to develop apps for KaiOS and they worked well enough. Jio Phone ships with Video and Audio streaming apps which are all built…

So what kind of apps did you make? Currently its a closed app store, so kind of curious to understand what is the barrier to entry to this ecosystem.
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