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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#441

Post by [deleted] »

kraig911 wrote: post #127
linkmotif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s necessarily a conflict between having empathy for people unconditionally while still asking questions like: if times were at one point good or OK but you’ve fallen into hard times now, why did you not have savings? People ask these questions because being miserly to save is hard and unpleasant, and then when others seemingly haven’t saved, it’s emotionally difficult helping them. I see people us…

When you say they had nothing they had nothing or did they have nothing and were also in 'debt'? In my families historical situation the big issue is you're poor because of debts. You can't move because you're stuck in a mortgage or farm loan. You can't go to college because you owe money. You can't better yourself without help from the outside essentially. Imagine owing 2k+ a month but only making 1800 for a few yea…

[deleted]

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#442

Post by emodendroket »

tudelo wrote: post #440
emodendroket wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe like a Chevy Spark or something? I actually just got one of those for my wife and it was only $7k with 50k miles on it.

Hah, I will not deny that it's probably very cost efficient, but 7k is only a cheap car relative to a new car. A cheap early 2000's late 1990's civic that runs is somewhere around 5 times less than that.

Yeah but this car was three years old and was certified pre-owned, with low mileage. You're suggesting one that is pushing two decades of service. We looked at those kind of cars too and it was obviously a worse choice unless you love rust and frequent repairs.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#443

Post by le-mark »

lotsofcows wrote: post #328

Dickens taught us to look at the poor and think, "There but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford." At some point this transformed into looking at the poor and thinking, "Loser." Governments should lean on our media to mediate this message.

Interesting, took me a while to discern your meaning here[1]. I had never heard of John Bradford, but basically, it's in the spirit of "There but for the grace of God, goe I".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bradford

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#444

Post by coolaliasbro »

baby wrote: post #314
psyc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in poverty in the US as well, and I agree there’s a heartless tendency for people not to acknowledge it’s real. The tired comment I see most frequently is something like “nobody in the US is poor because everyone has plumbing, refrigerators, and TVs.” First, no, everyone does not. Many people are homeless. Second, it’s very narrow to focus on objective material factors, because that discounts the toll of th…

The most shocking place I've visited in my life was San Francisco. Super rich people surrounded by armies of homeless people.

Agreed--this was a huge source of philosophical dissonance for me when I lived there. The issue is just as persistent in the East Bay (specifically, Oakland/Berkeley) and is worse, IMO, because Berkeley espouses a progressive/compassionate/environmentally+socially friendly image, to which it does not adhere in practice.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#445

Post by mprovost »

fastball wrote: post #375
jamiegreen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Was in SF recently and the juxtaposition of extreme wealth and homelessness makes me extremely uncomfortable. I know we have homelessness in the UK but this is just a whole different scale in the US

What are you talking about? Have you never been to London? There are homeless literally everywhere, and London is one of the wealthiest cities in the world. The money in London is much, much older as well, so if anyone should have it "sorted" it should be London.

There were 1,137 homeless reported in London [0], a city with a population of 8.8 million. SF has 7,499 [1] for a city of 870k. There are actually more homeless in SF than all of England.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/25/rough-sleepe... [1] https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SF-s-new-count-shows-...

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#446

Post by brookside »

dizzystar wrote: post #213
kraig911 wrote: post #69

I hate seeing people's comments on stories around this topic. I grew up in poverty and food stamps from time to time. My dad was a roughneck and when the oil bust happened in the 80's there was a time we lived out of our car -- my whole family. here was literally nothing to do in the oil patch during that bust. There was literally no work. But people don't understand true hopelessness. My dad did everything he could…

I grew up in poverty as well and my reaction to money is the total opposite. I never felt connected to it all. I want to be a good saver, but my understanding of the green stuff is nearly nil. It's just sort of there and I try not to think about it. I think it's just the opposite problem. I simply don't know what to spend money on. I feel like I spend a lot of money, but somehow everyone is in deeper debt than I am.…

So many of us are in debt, but I would definitely encourage you to think about re-shifting your own paradigm if it's comfortable to do so:

If you would like entertaining reading to assist in your own building of a new mental model around money:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

(written by a programmer who retired early and is part of the "financial independence" movement/blogosphere)

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#447

Post by zip1234 »

gizmo686 wrote: post #89
adrr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% of society can't be brought out of poverty. Here's an example: If we motivated everyone to get a college education, we would have people flipping burgers who are college educated making min wage and living in poverty while struggling to put food on the table.

Why not? If you define poverty as being below the Xth percentile of wealth, then it is tautological that we cannot reach 100% non-poverty. However, if you define poverty in absolute terms, then there is no fundamental reason why we cannot reach 100% non poverty. All that is necessary is for society to produce enough "stuff" that, when divided by the total population, is still greater than the poverty threshold. In pr…

There is also the issue that even if all of the money were split between everyone--some people would spend all of theirs and some would save theirs. Wealth is accumulated money, not income.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#448

Post by braderhart »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #322
chaostheory wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, we're discussing homeless people with mental issues, and not people who aren't homeless. The homeless have less access to resources than a non-homeless person with family and friends. > It is important to give someone a stable and loving and validating environment for them to be able to recover. There are several kinds of people who, while they talk to themselves, really just have their symptoms exacerba…

Yes, there are. The only real difference between a mentally ill homeless person and a normal mentally ill person is the home. Why wouldn't a stable home be the answer? A short-term stay in a mental hospital might be necessary while getting the patient adjusted to their medication. But once someone is stable, there is no need for such things. Even though the institutions have changed, they are still pretty horrible pl…

You have some of the best ideas. I would love to get more involved in helping with programs like these. Substance abuse can be the most challenging to approach. From my experience, some people are on a self-destructive path and they forget how to take care of themselves. Some drugs are almost zombifying in that they are begin to only think about their next fix.

I would like to see more options here for medicine and research. Truly, recovery can be a long process for many and it takes time for the brain and body to heal from trauma. Some of that may be emotional trauma as well. I would love to see more options for preventive mental health services in the United States.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#449

Post by cryptokush »

hellofunk wrote: post #342
analyst74 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American poverty sounds so different from Chinese poverty. I grew up during the tail years of communism and everybody was dirt poor. The interesting thing is, nobody was financially stressed, starvation and homelessness was not a thing. I ended up developing an abundance mentality and terrible money management skills. Looking even further back, my parents experienced the height of policy stupidity and barely survived…

> I grew up during the tail years of communism I'm a bit confused; is China not still communist?

state capitalism

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#450

Post by [deleted] »

fastball wrote: post #424
fencepost wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take would be that they weren't starving because they were poor, they were starving because there was no food to be had. Starvation in a famine is different from starvation in a land of plenty where you simply can't afford food.

If there was no food, the entire population of China would've died. In the case of a famine, it's still the haves and the have-nots.

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