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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#431
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does she have a 6 month emergency fund, health insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, a large enough home, home insurance, a stable marriage, stable employment, flex in the budget? Are you proposing that only the top 10% most economically secure people should have children? Because if you check those critera you'll find it's a surprisingly small minority of people that meet all of them. (Something like ha…

Not in those terms. But I believe that list is achievable by the overwhelming majority of Americans if they were to make better decisions. The ones who can't afford to save a 6 month e-fund when they're childless are living precariously as it is and sure can't afford the disruption to their budget a kid would entail. I feel like I'm talking into the wind here. I guess I hold unpopular opinions around here. Is persona…

Ultimately it comes down to: knowing nothing else about someone's life other than that they are poor and have children, what is your default assumption? Blame the person or blame the system they live in? This is even more acute when we're talking about people in statistical terms - the individual stories and details vanish and you're left with pure statistical artefacts.

The presumption that it's people's own fault that they are poor often comes with a presumption that they're lying or evasive when it comes to explaining why they're in that situation when really they don't want to have to justify their existence all the time.

Doubly so in areas of reproductive choice. Not only is abortion extremely controversial in America, but access to contraception is hardly guaranteed and not necessarily free.

And again, I think you're vastly overestimating how many people could realistically achieve your standards just through their own decisions. Are your standards achievable at all on minimum wage?

(edit: think about this on the larger scale - an America where everyone has 6 months savings and no personal non-mortgage debt would have a financial industry with hundreds of billions of dollars in very different places ...)

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#432

I hate seeing people's comments on stories around this topic. I grew up in poverty and food stamps from time to time. My dad was a roughneck and when the oil bust happened in the 80's there was a time we lived out of our car -- my whole family. here was literally nothing to do in the oil patch during that bust. There was literally no work. But people don't understand true hopelessness. My dad did everything he could…

[deleted]

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me? Because yes, I'm aware of that. That is why I am so confused by OP seeming to say "in China we don't have to worry about starvation even when we're poor". It's just so far from true I don't understand why they are getting upvoted (and me downvoted).

Probably the commenter was born after 1962.

Seems like it. Doesn't really matter though.

The most recent UNICEF data[1] puts malnutrition to the point of stunting at 8.1% in China.

In the US it was 2.1%.

1. https://data.unicef.org/topic/nutrition/malnutrition/

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chinese poverty is different from American poverty because we weren't worried about starving." Mentions a mass starvation event in China only a generation before which probably killed the equivalent of 10% of the US population at the time. You might want to think about that a bit more.

I specifically mentioned the famine, to bring up the contrast between the worst possible kind of poverty and how it affected people like my parents. Of course, I only see residue effects long after it happened, so maybe time does heal all wounds.

Or maybe your generation had it easier because there was less competition?

8.1% of China's population is still malnourished to the point of stunting[1].

It's only 2.1% in the US.

1. https://data.unicef.org/topic/nutrition/malnutrition/

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#435
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us disagree very strongly with the premise of capitalism.

Under libertarianism, there's no law against communes. You can set one up!

And if a hypothetical commune became dominant and an existential threat to the existence of a hypothetical libertarian society? The Communist Party of the Philippines operates as a parallel government in many respects, do you think that should be allowed? The Zapatistas?

It's misleading to say that it would be a-ok to start a socialist society in a libertarian society. It (like many aspects of libertarian analysis, in my opinion) ignores the reality of a political situation like the one described.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America was founded by people who fled Europe because they didn't fit in there. I have raised two special needs kids. If you have problems other people don't really understand, it is not uncommon for people to try to help you in ways that are incredibly counterproductive. This is why "Please stop helping me!" is (or was) a TV Tropes page. America has a political tradition of Don't tread on me. This influences our pol…

> America was founded by people who fled Europe because they didn't fit in there I'm pretty sure most of that influx of people predates the European wealthfare states and modern democracies.

It could (and has been) argued that the welfare state is the continuation of feudal society by different means.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Was in SF recently and the juxtaposition of extreme wealth and homelessness makes me extremely uncomfortable. I know we have homelessness in the UK but this is just a whole different scale in the US

What are you talking about? Have you never been to London? There are homeless literally everywhere, and London is one of the wealthiest cities in the world. The money in London is much, much older as well, so if anyone should have it "sorted" it should be London.

You are right, there are homeless in London of course, as I said in my original comment. I had the impression it was a lot worse in SF. I don't know what the stats are on SF v London but I would be interested. And of course, I think it is a disgrace we have homeless in the UK too

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're angry already. Can you explain what's fueling your indignation?

How about offering to help someone and then people acting like you are a bad person? How about that? I've got nothing for or against either poster, but so many assumptions were made about someone who may have been just trying to help. Why is that fair? Why try to help anyone if you're gonna get treated like that?

Why indeed? That's the question we all must answer for ourselves.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#440
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live somewhere where a car is not necessary/totally unaffordable? I think the OP is probably living in the US, and navigating most areas is almost impossible without a car. Wonder what the alternative to a cheap civic is other than no car :)

Maybe like a Chevy Spark or something? I actually just got one of those for my wife and it was only $7k with 50k miles on it.

Hah, I will not deny that it's probably very cost efficient, but 7k is only a cheap car relative to a new car. A cheap early 2000's late 1990's civic that runs is somewhere around 5 times less than that.
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