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Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

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Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#11

Post by mtgx »

rkangel wrote: post #9
Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

Even in the developed world, coverage of high speed wireless broadband (e.g. 3G and up) isn't complete. In the less developed world the coverage is even worse[1]. I don't know the costs to set up and run the network, but I do feel like there is a large possible customer base. [1] https://opensignal.com/reports/2016/08/global-state-of-the-m...

I think there was a recent report from the FCC that said only ~60% of Americans have access to 25+ Mbps internet. So, at least in theory, SpaceX has an enormous market.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#12

Post by derekp7 »

Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

I was at Motorola when Iridium went up, and witness first hand the changing market dynamics that were happening even before their first satellite was deployed. Was thinking then that if they mad the satellites generic data switches instead of a flying phone switch, they would have had a much bigger market.

So for Musk's network, it really depends on if 80% of the potential customers (people with money to spend on the service) get saturated with ground-level 3G - 5G by the time the network is operational or not.

Something else to consider, if the system allows for land-based carriers to tap into it and re-broadcast it on 5G (with different pricing). Imagine if there is no coverage in your area, and anyone can purchase a box to put on their roof that pulls down the satellite Internet and makes it available to everyone's 3G - 5G phones in the area. You lease the box from someone, and you get a commission on every client connection.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#13

Post by CamTin »

So is he not planning on offering Internet access then? Just transit to other Starlink stations? Presumably even that would allow somebody to offer a "real" ISP on top of this service with a ground station and then peering to the Internet. Still, paying for Starlink and then separately paying for a Starlink-Internet bridge isn't the greatest consumer experience.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#14

Post by derekp7 »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #4

How would the tech work exactly? Would this make it more difficult for the government to tap into connections as one could technically (outside of an ISP) jack straight into that network?

I would imagine that those governments would make it illegal for people to own the receiver equipment. Just like some (in the past) have made it illegal to own a shortwave radio.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#15

Post by Quarrelsome »

Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

it avoids all of the annoying issues that cartels spent a lot of time setting up on a state-by-state basis in the US (which results in limited choice).

Effectively you could connect to this anywhere in the world without the approval of local (e.g. Chinese citizens could get an unfiltered internet and the only "tell" is that they have a satellite dish). That makes the potential of this reasonably neat but it will depend on bottoming out the price and having enough capacity.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#16

Post by madengr »

CamTin wrote: post #13

So is he not planning on offering Internet access then? Just transit to other Starlink stations? Presumably even that would allow somebody to offer a "real" ISP on top of this service with a ground station and then peering to the Internet. Still, paying for Starlink and then separately paying for a Starlink-Internet bridge isn't the greatest consumer experience.

Assuming you have to pay for the latter. Similar to the way cellular companies give away free nanocells.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#17

Post by sho »

Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

Hell of a lot of places without 5G, or any, mobile internet. Don't forget aviation and to a lesser extent maritime either. People love their onboard wifi.

Owning the launch platform could mean that he's able to significantly undercut current players, although funnily enough soon-to-be competitor Iridium recently launched a whole bunch of new satellites using SpaceX. Good position to be in when your competitors are dependent on you!

There are certainly challenges, though. Latency is a huge problem with satellite internet, for obvious reasons. I'm not sure what the intended bandwidth is but satellite will always "feel" slower than mobile data of equivalent speed. The fact that it's a mesh network with who knows how many "hops" presumably makes it even worse. So it won't ever compete with mobile, not even 3G probably.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#18

Post by castratikron »

Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

For a while the Trump administration considered building a government 5G network to prevent Chinese companies from doing it first. American telecoms are dragging their feet so much that they are starting to pose a threat to national security. They say building a nationwide network could take three years, so I don't see much threat to SpaceX now.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-memo-urges-big-push-on-5g-w...

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#19

Post by endymi0n »

Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

Thinking at the scale of Musk's ambitions real quick, this makes a lot of sense.

At Tesla: Think about every Tesla car worldwide being able to phone home with self-driving learning data. Being able to remote operate them in the 0.001% of cases where human intervention is neccessary, no matter whether in the Australian outback or the Alps (without "no network").

At SpaceX: Being able to communicate with every Mars-bound spacecraft 24/7 by laser transmission, without having to rely on NASA's expensive Deep Space Network.

Re: Elon Musk said SpaceX's multi 1000 satellite Internet service will be IP-less

#20

Post by zaarn »

derekp7 wrote: post #12
Numberwang wrote: post #3

For those of you in the know here. Is this a realistic project/enterprise he is working on? Seems both costly to deploy that many satellites and risky in the sense that you can't count on getting a lot of customers. Especially with the new super speedy 5G networks and so on.

I was at Motorola when Iridium went up, and witness first hand the changing market dynamics that were happening even before their first satellite was deployed. Was thinking then that if they mad the satellites generic data switches instead of a flying phone switch, they would have had a much bigger market. So for Musk's network, it really depends on if 80% of the potential customers (people with money to spend on the…

It would be most interesting indeed if the satellite network allowed operating your own ISP for extremely low cost. Making 3-5G available to phones and peering to existing networks maybe? (I'm not that familiar with Mobile ISP Politics, unlike BGP Politics)
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