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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#311

Post by baby »

dizzystar wrote: post #213
kraig911 wrote: post #69

I hate seeing people's comments on stories around this topic. I grew up in poverty and food stamps from time to time. My dad was a roughneck and when the oil bust happened in the 80's there was a time we lived out of our car -- my whole family. here was literally nothing to do in the oil patch during that bust. There was literally no work. But people don't understand true hopelessness. My dad did everything he could…

I grew up in poverty as well and my reaction to money is the total opposite. I never felt connected to it all. I want to be a good saver, but my understanding of the green stuff is nearly nil. It's just sort of there and I try not to think about it. I think it's just the opposite problem. I simply don't know what to spend money on. I feel like I spend a lot of money, but somehow everyone is in deeper debt than I am.…

Why did you start with such an expensive bed? I've bought 5 beds so far in my life and I've never spent that much. I probably have spent 500$ (mattress+frame+comforter+...) for my last bed and that was the most expensive one I ever bought.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#312

Post by DoreenMichele »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #305
DoreenMichele wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of comment I really hate seeing. It is almost always virtue signaling. People genuinely looking to help have zero problem finding my PayPal account or emailing me. The people who publicly offer assistance usually wind up really pissed off at me if I rudely try to take them up on it. It is gauche of me to take them seriously. They were just trying to look good in public for free. I am supposed to have…

> The people who publicly offer assistance usually wind up really pissed off at me if I rudely try to take them up on it. And goodness forbid you need more than the bare essentials, like a car, home, etc.

Yes, the public offers to help me eat when I am flat broke drive me crazy because when I talk about being unable to make adequate income as a writer, that gets dismissed as "meh, sucks to be you." People use ad blocker, tell me Patreon is charity and expect good content to be free. Then I get pity money* once in a while when things are really bad.

And it's like, hello? 2+2=4. Can you not see how these issues are related? Geez.

* My apologies to the generous souls who have compassionately given me money at times so I could eat. But the reality is I would not need such gifts if I had enough regular income, but all efforts to establish an earned income fall on deaf ears.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#313

Post by thomastjeffery »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #46
louprado wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there may be HN readers who have little income and possessions and are therefore living in "poverty", true poverty is a lack of those things and a lack of hope that your situation will improve. If you are really feeling hopeless you don't turn to HN for news on the latest programming frameworks.

> true poverty is a lack of those things and a lack of hope that your situation will improve. I'm not sure where your second criterion comes from. I don't think "poverty" excludes anyone who aspires to someday leave poverty.

Aspiration and hopelessness are not mutually exclusive.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#314

Post by baby »

psyc wrote: post #77
kraig911 wrote: post #69

I hate seeing people's comments on stories around this topic. I grew up in poverty and food stamps from time to time. My dad was a roughneck and when the oil bust happened in the 80's there was a time we lived out of our car -- my whole family. here was literally nothing to do in the oil patch during that bust. There was literally no work. But people don't understand true hopelessness. My dad did everything he could…

I grew up in poverty in the US as well, and I agree there’s a heartless tendency for people not to acknowledge it’s real. The tired comment I see most frequently is something like “nobody in the US is poor because everyone has plumbing, refrigerators, and TVs.” First, no, everyone does not. Many people are homeless. Second, it’s very narrow to focus on objective material factors, because that discounts the toll of th…

The most shocking place I've visited in my life was San Francisco. Super rich people surrounded by armies of homeless people.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#315

Post by baby »

jamiegreen wrote: post #217
nicoburns wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the UK and I'm currently travelling the world for a few months. I have been shocked by how different American attitudes to poverty are to European ones. We may not be very good at actually helping people in poverty, but most people accept that poor people are in need of help.

I agree. Was in SF recently and the juxtaposition of extreme wealth and homelessness makes me extremely uncomfortable. I know we have homelessness in the UK but this is just a whole different scale in the US

Oh my, this is what I was saying elsewhere in this thread. San Francisco is probably the most shocking place I've been to in my life. So much poverty and yet so much money. YC should do a push to do something with that with its next start up. But I'm guessing people in SF just got used to the poverty around them at this point and probably think it's normal.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#316

Post by IkmoIkmo »

A lot of great stories in this thread, a lot of them are quite disheartening US stories of poverty.

Mine was the opposite, really. Grew up as a welfare-kid in Western-Europe with a disabled dad and a sibling. The state provided for us, the three of us made do with about $1200 (roughly the $7.50 minimum wage in the US at a 40h 52w work schedule) or so in today's money, living in the capital city so rent and insurance ate up quite a bit of our budget. Still, we had a great childhood, went to university, always did sports, vacations, had books and computers at home. Everything was always a few generations old, everything was second hand, I still have clothes that are 15 years old. I always worked to buy my own clothes, phone, trips etc, such that my dad was 'only' paying rent/food from age 14, and eventually we chipped in there as well. I feel tremendously grateful for having been born here, socio-economic mobility is a lot higher here than elsewhere (the American dream irony). I've got a postgrad degree, steady job, traveled the world etc. I never wanted for anything, honestly. The government helped us out with tuition fees, insurance, rent, and I happily pay my fair share back in taxes. Most importantly perhaps, I never felt the damage of stress of being poor, we were never scared for our future, if anything, it looked bright. I don't feel any less than others, not ashamed or fearful. I owe a lot of this to the state and my fellow citizens.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#317

Post by thomastjeffery »

pm90 wrote: post #310
thomastjeffery wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, I have never experienced poverty, and don't have the motivation of "looking into oblivion" to push me into another dead-end job. But does that mean I deserve that experience? Should I be put in a situation where I have to fight to survive? I think that is unreasonable. There exist better motivations. I am capable of work that is much more attractive to me than entry-level labor jobs. The idea that I…

> Taxation is theft, but the current Republican party (including Sen. Hatch) has used that as an excuse to push an agenda that works against those who are barely getting by, while working for those who have inherited obscene amounts of wealth. That, in my opinion, is worse than the theft itself. I don't understand how you can hold this view in light of what you said before that paragraph. How do you suppose we come u…

I'm not sure you understood me clearly.

I believe taxation is theft, but that that fact is no excuse for allocating spending of tax dollars unwisely.

What the Republican Party, and many Libertarians seem to think is that because taxation is theft, anything that depends on taxation is immoral, and therefore taxes are free to be allocated immorally. That conclusion is fallacious, absurd, and malicious.

You can disagree with me on the fine point of taxes being immoral in the first place, but that is precisely not my point.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#318

Post by hycaria »

Phronux wrote: post #308
Viliam1234 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I walk in a shop, I just see many things that I do not need. Other people worry that they won't get enough vacation by ocean, the latest car model, or the most fashionable clothes... I just laugh at such suggestions. I have a roof above my head, as much food as I need, a computer and a fast internet connection -- what else would I really need ? On the other hand, for a long time in my life, when I saved some mon…

Someone else could've said that having a roof over one's head, a computer and a fast internet connection are laughable suggestions - why would you care about them, when you can spend money on traveling around the world and the internet connection is usually all over the places for free? I actually worry about not having enough vacation, because experiencing other people's cultures and mindsets are the most important…

>I actually worry about not having enough vacation, because experiencing other people's cultures and mindsets are the most important things to me. What else would I really need?

Ah yes, the infamous two weeks where for a huge GHG release, we can experience other cultures and come back home changed.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#319

Post by hycaria »

norin wrote: post #288
heurist wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy things that become more valuable over time. Investing has become a fun way for me to "spend" that cash I otherwise hoard. Spending money on anything else is very difficult for me.

I spend most of my money on books. I rarely ever spend money on anything else. Living as a kid with my grandma had a huge impact on things I did in my later years. We were poor but always had access to books.

Don't you have access to libraries ?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#320

Post by lalp1 »

I grew up "spoiled" but my grand-parents lived the WWII in France, they weren't poor but they still live in frugality even if they are comfortable since many decades - ex: they do not eat lots of meat. I inherited this frugality and do not like to buy useless stuff.

My girlfriend, a russian who lived in USSR, is the complete opposite. She rely heavily on consumption to be "happy" and to fill an insecurity. It might be genetically cultural, but the communism sadness/deprivation has created generations of Russians who love consumption and luxury lifestyle.

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