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EFI Sucks (2012)

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Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's how you interact with daemons.

Ah, right. I suppose it could also be argued that the kernel is also unnecessarily complex as well?

Possibly, but a pretty obvious retort is that it's necessarily complex; there is nothing else to do all the things that it does. Whereas for BIOS and EFI the argument would be that they should do as little as possible to hand over to the real operating system.

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#23
post #4

A lot of the painpoints are gone, understandbly, but some still exist. The biggest suck on EFI is that it uses PE fileformats. I would have liked it more if it would have just loaded a raw PIC binary or ELF. And not used Windows Calling Conventions.

That is not important. The real bad part is that you still cannot easily load modules of your own to work around broken setup by mainboard manufacturer or Intel or boot rom in the device. This essentially causes lock in. Or even disable some broken modules.

(Security has nothing to do with it, the module can be crypto signed by user installed key.)

Plus the critical hardware setup documentation is not being released at all.

Another is the use of SMI to communicate with the thing which just does not play well with a preemptible OS.

Memory map handling is additional badness on top.

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, right. I suppose it could also be argued that the kernel is also unnecessarily complex as well?

Possibly, but a pretty obvious retort is that it's necessarily complex; there is nothing else to do all the things that it does. Whereas for BIOS and EFI the argument would be that they should do as little as possible to hand over to the real operating system.

Or at least possible to reduce to a minimum start-up set. Which is possible with EFI but thanks to mainboard manufacturers and Intel and AMD being secretive plus crypto signing everything... not at all.

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, right. I suppose it could also be argued that the kernel is also unnecessarily complex as well?

Possibly, but a pretty obvious retort is that it's necessarily complex; there is nothing else to do all the things that it does. Whereas for BIOS and EFI the argument would be that they should do as little as possible to hand over to the real operating system.

> but a pretty obvious retort is that it's necessarily complex

I would like to offer, as a counter example, every micro kernel ever.

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#27

Unfortunately his statement is still valid even after 6 yrs, it is still a complicated disaster. And it uses Fat32 and PE. An abomination in my view.

FAT32 is a good choice IMO. It's the simplest of the "mainstream" filesystems.

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#28
post #27

Unfortunately his statement is still valid even after 6 yrs, it is still a complicated disaster. And it uses Fat32 and PE. An abomination in my view.

FAT32 is a good choice IMO. It's the simplest of the "mainstream" filesystems.

correct me if I am wrong but it's still patented by Microsoft. Also time precision is up to even seconds (i.e. it can not store file stamp 'modified at 10:00:01')

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#29
post #27

Unfortunately his statement is still valid even after 6 yrs, it is still a complicated disaster. And it uses Fat32 and PE. An abomination in my view.

FAT32 is a good choice IMO. It's the simplest of the "mainstream" filesystems.

Is it a good choice though? Isn't there a bunch of possible issues with FAT patents, in case someone wants to ship a product that boots, that could have been avoided by using something else?

(I don't know, I just have some vague memory of some Tomtom/Microsoft conflict due to FAT)

edit: user 'xxs' managed to type up the same issue before me (while I was typing mine).

Re: EFI Sucks (2012)

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAT32 is a good choice IMO. It's the simplest of the "mainstream" filesystems.

Is it a good choice though? Isn't there a bunch of possible issues with FAT patents, in case someone wants to ship a product that boots, that could have been avoided by using something else? (I don't know, I just have some vague memory of some Tomtom/Microsoft conflict due to FAT) edit: user 'xxs' managed to type up the same issue before me (while I was typing mine).

I think only exFAT has patent issues? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT#Portability_and_adoption
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