Live data from Hacker News

What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

climatecodered.org

61–70 of 257 posts

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#61
post #54

next the tundra melts and releases an insane amount of methane. we are so screwed.

how?

The Clathrate Gun

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

Edit: also had to track down this video from the UN climate change conference. The Wikipedia article tends to down play it periodically.

https://youtu.be/QQkNxuQ0DoI

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#62
post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

> Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal?

"Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

The displacement of large numbers of people will cause immense strife. Just look at the nasty reaction to the relatively small migration away from the Syrian civil war.

The problem is basically that all the land near populated coastlines is already owned, and those owners are not going to be inclined to let millions of their neighbors move in without some compensation.

But if those neighbors' coastal property just got swallowed by the sea, they probably don't have many assets left to pay.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#63
post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

> So it's going to get warmer

The life cycle of countless animals and plants is finetuned to our current climate. Crops are also at the mercy of weather patterns. We have no idea whether our food sources will get through the changes. Example of unknown unknown: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/australia-green-...

> What's the big deal?

We are talking about hundreds of millions of starving people moving away from the coastlines AND the Equator. Example: https://web.archive.org/web/20180107084251/https://blogs.sci... Bangladesh alone has half the population of the US.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#64
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that the downvoters don't know what chinook winds can do nor what causes them. [1] The temperature swings can easily be double what I mentioned above, i.e. 40 C from -20C to +20C and back. Or it's a heresy to point out that a particular weather event is neither uncommon nor a sign of doom. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_wind

that requires a very specific topographic configuration (nearby tall mountains with warm moist air flowing over them from one side, and the other side in their rain shadow). It is by no means a widespread phenomena, and absolutely does not explain events in the arctic.

The Danish meteorological report I linked to explicitly states that the temperature spike was caused by a foehn-like wind, and that the same phenomenon has already been recorded at the same weather station in past years.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#66
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it does. Try it. (To be clear, it was implemented because of the frequency in which developers mistakenly use instead of )

No it doesn’t. Html has img and picture tags. https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/semantics-embedded-content.html...

It does indeed have tags as part of the spec, in order to account for about 0.2% of websites per a study done in December 2005. See this comment for the link in the spec: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16462230

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#67
post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

I was also convinced that this was a reasonable way of looking at things because often the "climate change debate" is portrayed as two-sided; one arguing that climate change isn't a big deal and one arguing that it is. This leads to the false supposition that the true answer lies somewhere in the middle, but unfortunately it does not.

For me, one of the most eye-opening experiences was reading an article from the New Yorker the worst of what may happen due to climate change.[0] Because the "climate change is happening" side often tries to ground their claims in research and climate-models, they are rarely apocalyptic or even the slightest bit exaggeratory, while the other side often argues at the opposite extreme of "nothing will happen." I found this article to be helpful in orienting the debate, as it helped me realize that the expected value of doing nothing is really far worse than what I imagined.

[0] http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-...

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#68
post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

Melting of the northern permafrost could release a large amount of mercury (estimated around 800 gigagrams). (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16330219)

There is also worry of a positive feedback loop that could cause global warming to spiral out of control. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis)

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#69
post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

Ticks are getting worse in my neck of the woods. If they keep getting worse, that would really suck.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#70
post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

As far as sea-level rises are concerned, the Arctic sea ice will probably be a net sea-level fall, except around the Equator. If all of the Greenland glaciers were to disappear, well then, we would see a sea-level rise, globally. But it would be distributed unevenly across the world. The higher levels would again be around the Equator with decreasing levels the further north or south of the Equator you go.

But to get even a 1/3 of the Greenland ice cover to melt requires an unimaginably large amount of energy to do so. I'd have more concerns about the devastation of that much energy on the atmosphere than I do about any trivial amount of ice melt and associated sea-level rise.

The planet is close to being a steady state system, that is the energy inflows from the day side is about equivalent to the energy outflows on the night side. This varies throughout the year due to various factors, including orbital position, solar energy output, climate factors like clouds, etc.

The required energy to get 1/3 of Greenland glacial melt is approximately about the amount of energy received by the Earth on a single day, without any of that energy being released on the night side. Due to the slow conductivity of water in both solid and liquid forms, the atmosphere would need to essentially hold all of that energy. Even over a hundred years, that would probably mean atmospheric temperatures that would probably kill most, if not all, life on the surface of the planet.

There has been one study (that I know of) that has looked at the retention of energy over a period of about 50 years and the conclusion was that only 2 to maybe 5% of the energy retained managed to get into ice-melt. So to get the required ice-melt energy needed, we would need, say, 20 to 25 days worth of solar input radiation to be fully retained within the atmosphere (no leakage back into space).

In addition, I somehow think that even a 5 or 10 degree Celsius temperature rise would lead quickly to a sharp fall in global temperatures and would the initiation of a global ice-age. Since the planet has an approximate coverage by oceans and sea ice of 70%, an average rise of 5 to 10 degrees would more than likely see a huge rise in cloud coverage and subsequent reflection of energy back out into space, followed by a subsequent rapid cooling of the globe.

Of course, these figures are dependent on common available information and could be wrong by some percentage. It's not hard to do your own calculations if you want to get some feel for what might be possible.

Post reply on HN