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What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

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Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#51

Post by arcticfox »

mkempe wrote: post #17
davesque wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But...the ice levels are well below record lows during the satellite era according to the article. When are we going to stop kidding ourselves?

I haven't said anything about arctic sea ice levels, have I? I just provided a factual summary based on the original Danish report about the cause of a one-day temperature spike recorded at one weather station in Northern Greenland.

Right, but I don't see how anyone could read the article and find that single day a compelling part of the story. It could have easily been left out.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#52

Post by mkempe »

mkempe wrote: post #2

I read the weather report (in Danish). [1] The local warming in Greenland has already happened in previous years at that particular weather station. The spike in temperature was caused by a foehn-like wind -- same as a chinook wind in the Colorado or Wyoming Rockies; the temperature in Boulder CO can easily climb 10-20 C over a few hours and rapidly melt the snow, then return to a deep freeze the next night. [1] http…

I'm guessing that the downvoters don't know what chinook winds can do nor what causes them. [1] The temperature swings can easily be double what I mentioned above, i.e. 40 C from -20C to +20C and back.

Or it's a heresy to point out that a particular weather event is neither uncommon nor a sign of doom.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_wind

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#53

Post by krautt »

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical.

Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal?

Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#55

Post by mkempe »

arcticfox wrote: post #51
mkempe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't said anything about arctic sea ice levels, have I? I just provided a factual summary based on the original Danish report about the cause of a one-day temperature spike recorded at one weather station in Northern Greenland.

Right, but I don't see how anyone could read the article and find that single day a compelling part of the story. It could have easily been left out.

It was not presented with appropriate context, and was not left out. It undermines the argument and thus should have been left out. That makes it interesting.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#56

Post by pwarner »

meri_dian wrote: post #46

I often see people talk about potential positive feedback loops involved in climate change, but rarely are potential damping mechanisms mentioned. So let's talk about them. I'll share one. Methane consuming bacteria discovered under the West Antarctic ice shelf: https://nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=242668 "The scientists say that if their analysis is correct, it could mean that a large reservoir of methane thou…

Looks like this fern fixed it last time? So no worries then. Might take a while... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azolla_event

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#57

Post by dwaltrip »

krautt wrote: post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

Widespread and severe agricultural issues, drought, an increase in extreme weather (hurricanes / typhoons / etc), unprecedented heat waves, and others I'm forgetting.

This along, with the issues you've mentioned, could result in significant political instability across the world, massive migration issues that could easily dwarf the migration issues of the last decade, perhaps even severe wars, and other disastrous situations.

I'm not qualified to give a full description. Some form of the above seems fairly plausible to me if we don't take serious pragmatic action.

It's of course incredibly difficult to give meaningful predictions about something this complex. But let's not bet the damn farm on it.

It is very well established that there are serious risks. The time has long come for anyone in a relevant position of leadership to accept the responsibility and take effective action.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#58

Post by mathgenius »

krautt wrote: post #53

So it's going to get warmer, sea levels will rise. coastlines will move inland as sea levels rise. Typically colder areas will become more tropical. Other than displacing a large number of people who live on coastlines, what's the big deal? Insult me for my niavety if it makes you feel better, but I honestly don't know the answer.

How about the Syrian civil war?

"global warming is said to have played a role in sparking the 2011 uprising. Severe drought plagued Syria from 2007-10, causing as many as 1.5 million people to migrate from the countryside into cities, exacerbating poverty and social unrest."

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/2/syrias-civil-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War#Drought

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#59

Post by meri_dian »

pwarner wrote: post #56
meri_dian wrote: post #46

I often see people talk about potential positive feedback loops involved in climate change, but rarely are potential damping mechanisms mentioned. So let's talk about them. I'll share one. Methane consuming bacteria discovered under the West Antarctic ice shelf: https://nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=242668 "The scientists say that if their analysis is correct, it could mean that a large reservoir of methane thou…

Looks like this fern fixed it last time? So no worries then. Might take a while... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azolla_event

Not that there are no worries, but the worst case scenarios being put forward are almost certainly not accurate. In fact it has been acknowledged that the worst case models submitted to the Paris Climate Accord talks were misleading in their assumptions.

Re: What is happening in the Arctic is now beyond words, so here are the pictures

#60

Post by throwaway2048 »

mkempe wrote: post #52
mkempe wrote: post #2

I read the weather report (in Danish). [1] The local warming in Greenland has already happened in previous years at that particular weather station. The spike in temperature was caused by a foehn-like wind -- same as a chinook wind in the Colorado or Wyoming Rockies; the temperature in Boulder CO can easily climb 10-20 C over a few hours and rapidly melt the snow, then return to a deep freeze the next night. [1] http…

I'm guessing that the downvoters don't know what chinook winds can do nor what causes them. [1] The temperature swings can easily be double what I mentioned above, i.e. 40 C from -20C to +20C and back. Or it's a heresy to point out that a particular weather event is neither uncommon nor a sign of doom. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_wind

that requires a very specific topographic configuration (nearby tall mountains with warm moist air flowing over them from one side, and the other side in their rain shadow).

It is by no means a widespread phenomena, and absolutely does not explain events in the arctic.

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