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Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
81–90 of 130 posts
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#82> The AAC&U looked at some of the same measures as the association. Specifically around oral communication, students ranked themselves highly -- about 62 percent of students believed they did well in this area compared to 28 percent of employers. That and written communication showed the biggest gaps in the AAC&U report (27 percent of employers versus 65 percent of students). Kind of difficult to disagree with this o…
when a manager complains about oral/written communication they are NOT talking about how you spell things. its things like properly alerting them when issues arise, not being to terse yet not overly wordy emails, knowing what topics are appropriate on conference call and when others can be talked about offline, etc. i myself am not the best at communication, but those problems do not lie in the fact i didnt bother to…
I think that if a developer has problems communicating in their written/spoken language of choice, it might indicate a similar issue with their programming language of choice.
Some managers do care about spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I have a 2nd VP who cares about the colors on the charts and graphs delivered to him.
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#83I'm always a little skeptical of these sorts of surveys because it's hard to tease out what people believe about themselves because it's true vs. what people believe about themselves because it's useful . I remember that when I was a new grad, there was a very large part of myself that held a realistic appraisal of my abilities and was therefore scared shitless about my ability to make it in the working world. I was…
Have you considered that perhaps your self-appraisal was unrealistically negative?
Your post suggests that either most people are capable of far more than work situations demand of them, or that you were more capable in practice than you appreciated at the time.
It's either that, or you were very, very lucky - which is possible, but not necessarily probable.
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#84When you give every kid a trophy, they all think that they are winners. We have raised a generation of children who have been infantilized and sheltered throughout their childhood and college years. The inevitable result, unfortunately, is a generation of adults that lack the ability to tackle adversity, think critically, or make valid self-assessments (something that is difficult even for the most enlightened). We h…
This is what happens when the educational system concentrates on emotional safety vs actually exposing students to what is happening in the real world. In real life, you also have to come to the realization that there are winners and losers in life, that it is not fair etc.. When a system focuses on preventing someone form experiencing any discomfort, this is a natural result of it.
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#85> The AAC&U looked at some of the same measures as the association. Specifically around oral communication, students ranked themselves highly -- about 62 percent of students believed they did well in this area compared to 28 percent of employers. That and written communication showed the biggest gaps in the AAC&U report (27 percent of employers versus 65 percent of students). Kind of difficult to disagree with this o…
> I've had fruitless discussions on this very site where people will argue that it doesn't matter how you use the language if, ultimately, the message somehow manages to get conveyed. Most of the time terrible language does manage to hinder the message! But the writer doesn't realize this, because for them it's obvious. I had a coworker (who is almost 30 and a college graduate) with this very attitude. A lot of his c…
But you could just as well say its six or 1/2 a dozen of the other.
I am some what prone to that as well as a dyslexic but at 10 I had a reading age of 18+
However you could turn that around and say well maybe your reading comprehension skills are not as good as mine.
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
when a manager complains about oral/written communication they are NOT talking about how you spell things. its things like properly alerting them when issues arise, not being to terse yet not overly wordy emails, knowing what topics are appropriate on conference call and when others can be talked about offline, etc. i myself am not the best at communication, but those problems do not lie in the fact i didnt bother to…
I think that if a developer has problems communicating in their written/spoken language of choice, it might indicate a similar issue with their programming language of choice. Some managers do care about spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I have a 2nd VP who cares about the colors on the charts and graphs delivered to him.
well charts/graphs delivered to management is an entirely different skill set / topic. slack/emails/comments is a different story. i myself would be happy to see any documentation, and something more than:
# this function calculates x
def calculatesX():
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#87Others have mentioned the vagueness and low value of the questions, but I'm particularly struck by the professionalism/work ethic one. Professionalism is tough, because we define it (roughly) as seeking the common expectations for the role, but one of those expectations is "professionalism". And "work ethic"...Im a gen Xer and I feel like millennials are getting dumped on more than the normal generational strife, to…
I have a feeling that both have unrealistic expectations. Graduates: I won't say all, but I do think many modern graduates allow themselves to be too easily distracted on a mobile computer they own. Employeers: High expectations of engagement and 'loyalty', but low pay, low benefits, and lacking support in the environment at work. Somehow able to remain productive when in a highly distracting environment with no expe…
Graduates: I won't say all, but I do think many modern graduates allow themselves to be too easily distracted on a mobile computer they own.
While I think there’s some truth in this (and, ahem, not-so-modern grads...), it seems like measuring the wrong thing. If someone posts 50 times a day to whatever the current friendfaceinstabook might be and delivers useful code (or whatever) on a regular basis, isn’t that fine? Focus on the latter, don’t stress about the former.
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#88I'm always a little skeptical of these sorts of surveys because it's hard to tease out what people believe about themselves because it's true vs. what people believe about themselves because it's useful . I remember that when I was a new grad, there was a very large part of myself that held a realistic appraisal of my abilities and was therefore scared shitless about my ability to make it in the working world. I was…
"What is your greatest weakness?". Everyone is expected to lie or warp reality a bit on this question. Interviewing is just a game and people learn pretty quickly to give the answers interviewers want to hear. The alternative to overconfidence is not great.
"Open-plan offices."
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#89When you give every kid a trophy, they all think that they are winners. We have raised a generation of children who have been infantilized and sheltered throughout their childhood and college years. The inevitable result, unfortunately, is a generation of adults that lack the ability to tackle adversity, think critically, or make valid self-assessments (something that is difficult even for the most enlightened). We h…
Of course, if your stereotype is correct, this does beg the question about who decided it was a good idea to GIVE 'the kids' all these trophies.
The reality is, all of then knows difference between participation tropey and winning. Maybe trophies smooth over feeling bad for not being winner, maybe not, I dunno. Obsessing over them is ridiculous on its own sake.
Top schools are more competitive then ever. High schoolers need to adjust their whole life to have a chance to get in. Competitions are harder then ever.
Kids spend way more time in organized activities to get every bit of performance out of them - the only exception is likely football which is suspect of destroying their brains.
On average, kids have little time to just play around without working on something.
Re: Overconfident Students, Dubious Employers
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that if a developer has problems communicating in their written/spoken language of choice, it might indicate a similar issue with their programming language of choice. Some managers do care about spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I have a 2nd VP who cares about the colors on the charts and graphs delivered to him.
well charts/graphs delivered to management is an entirely different skill set / topic. slack/emails/comments is a different story. i myself would be happy to see any documentation, and something more than: # this function calculates x def calculatesX():
I'm not sure if you are just going off on a tangent or just completely missed greedo's point.
If you can't write in your mother tongue properly you probably can't code properly either.