Doctors, Revolt

Can confirm that basic details frequently get misrecorded (here in Toronto). At a recent visit, the surgical staff received such a broken telephone version of my original reports and activity in the hospital, that when I overheard the surgeon discussing with the students prior to the procedure I literally burst out laughing (despite having an appendicitis waiting to be removed).

This is just how records like this work, frequently contextually or globally incorrect, I don't think it's really a matter of malpractice, at least not in relative terms; though I guess they could do better, like recording that staff had witnessed me collapse (!) two times (one in the waiting room, one in the halls) before they left me sitting in some random chair in a hallway for a couple hours, during which time I passed out a third time, scaring the bejesus out of the others waiting there, none of whom were patients.

Hospitals aren't really all that great at paying attention anywhere, as far as I can tell; the U.S. has the most discerning customers (and to some extent, some of the last remaining customers in the developed world). In the U.S. you might have some hope of complaining about service like I received, for example how the triage nurse spilled what looked like about 200ml of my blood all over my arm and the floor while drawing a sample at intake, or that when somebody finally called me to the the first room, she didn't even wait for me to get to the locked door (which I failed to do, because I collapsed half way there and needed to be wheeled in, mostly helped by random bystanders) before turning and walking back to sit down behind the desk (not at the desk), where I saw her playing on her phone.

In a discussion of NHS vs private practice, the fact that some (certainly not most) NHS-employed doctors also do private work, has no baring on the incentives placed upon them within their NHS employment.

I am certainly not saying the NHS system is perfect, and all private medicine is bad, so if that is the impression you got then perhaps I was unclear.

In almost every single clinical situations within an NHS hospital that I have seen or can think of, the clinicians treating you will not receive any extra money, bonus, promotion, etc. for the treatment they provide you or do not provide you.

I have lived in countries with more private systems, where there is a direct relationship between what treatment/investigations you receive and what money ends up in the doctors pocket. For example, a private doctor in HK referring for not-strictly-necessary-but-ultimatelhy-clinically-justifiable MRI scans at a private MRI clinic which, provides a percentage of the (expensive) scanning fee back to the referring clinician. Contrast that in the NHS, no one gets given money for sending a patient for an MRI scan, and in fact, if it isn't going to change the management of the patient, the request is likely to be refused to constrain resources. In the HK system, neither the doctor nor the MRI provider is incentivised to not do the scan, quite the opposite.

The NHS system is not perfect, but pointing out different the pros and cons of different incentivisation structures that do have an impact on patients is not something that is a "meme that needs to die"…

The same reasons would apply elsewhere, they're not USA-specific, so they don't explain why it's not possible to do the same thing that's successfully done elsewhere.

Sure, there's some inherent variance always - the same thing happens in many industries and doesn't prevent them from offering fixed quotes; the service provider is the one best qualified to estimate the expected variance in their costs and offer appropriate pricing.

Sure, there may be special requirements that justify charging extra for a particular case; that's not an obstacle from telling the customer about that beforehand. Well, not in ER, but most care is not ER.

Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I was at the hospital with a kidney infection last month. I get these regularly. I knew it was a kidney infection. I described my symptoms and the intake nurse agreed it sounded like a kidney infection. I told them my heart rate was faster than normal-- it's usually at 73, but it was now at 100. They took my vitals, which showed a fast heart rate (110) but I watched the nurse record a normal heart rate. Okay, whatever, maybe they think I'm anxious.

They take my urine, and three hours later they tell me my urine sample was "pristine". They were amazed at how clean it looked. Not even a single protein-- and as a female with a vagina that often discharges a proteinous substance, this was surprising! (And very good news! Doctor was astounded). The doctor concluded my kidney pain was "mechanical", that the muscle in that area had been bruised somehow I told her this was not the case, but she discharged me.

16 hours later (at home now) I'm running a fever of 104. My resting heart rate is an astounding 132 bpm. I'm scared of sepsis (infection of the blood) since I have experienced that before from kidney infections. I go to the hospital preparing for another 5 hour waiting time, but luckily they get me in an intake bed right away. I'm covering myself with a heavy blanket in my fever state-- something one shouldn't do, but nobody took it off me until I was about to be discharged. They come back with the results from another urine sample, and surprise, I have a kidney infection! I asked the doctor why my urine was "pristine" the day before and he said, "the lab tech probably didn't keep the dip stick in long enough" (which is why the test didn't register any protein in my urine whatsoever...) He acted like it was no big deal, like it happened all the time. They gave me 1/4 dose of morphine for the headache because I "look to be about 100 pounds" (I'm 5'10". That would put me at a BMI of 14.5-- ie. severely underweight, and cause for medical concern in and of itself! I'm 135 pounds, with a BMI of 19.4 Honestly, what the hell.) which doesn't help the pain at all, and I'm still wrapped in what amounts to a sweat lodge-- once again, nobody told me to take the blanket off. This is very common knowledge, but in my state of high fever and pain I did not think that it could be a bad idea. I would expect the doctors and nurses to be aware.

An hour later they suddenly tell me to get out of bed and they will move me to the waiting room with a chair and a goddamn television that I can already hear thumping through the walls, because this is an intake bed and "other patients need it". I'm sure they do, but I literally can't walk right now.

Long story short, the next time I get a kidney infection I'm staying home to die. The lack of care in that situation was astounding. To top it off, they treated me like a bad patient after I protested being moved to the waiting room.

edit: I also forgot to mention that they were going to give me pill antibiotics at discharge. I suggested they give me an IV instead, and set me up at an IV clinic. I'm not kidding, they said, "oh! That's actually a great idea". Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh