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AMP: the missing controversy

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Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#91

Post by rav »

tankenmate wrote: post #51
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really the only way to reject AMP4Email: Refuse to allow it, so that companies wanting to reach their customers can't implement it. However, it's unlikely large mail providers would choose to do this, I can't imagine Microsoft or Yahoo taking such a stand. My own provider FastMail, has said they of course, can't promise they won't support AMP4Email since compatibility is a major goal of theirs, and I can't fa…

If you run Amavis you can add a MIME type to the $banned_filename_re in a conf file (on debian based derivatives you'll normally find that in /etc/amavis/conf.d/20-debian_defaults). qr'^application/amp+html$'i, is what I use. If you want to put it in a separate file (such as a local config file) then you can just push(@$banned_filename_re,qr'^application/amp+html$'i);

Isn't the plus sign a special character in Perl regexes? That is, wouldn't you need to use this instead:

    qr'^application/amp\+html$'i,

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#92

Post by dmitriid »

cromwellian wrote: post #84
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

We were discussing with the AMP project tech lead over on GitHub trying to suss out details about governance and the like, and it's even scarier than we thought when it came to AMP4Email: Gmail is implementing AMP in email "the way they want to", and AMP Project is just deciding whether or not they want to support it/publish a 'standard'. I strongly recommend this for reading: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/is…

The real problem is, no one has proposed an alternative solution that solves the same problems. Either people claim it's not a problem (slow loading mobile sites driving people away from the web and onto mobile), or people claim it'll just fix itself because everywhere will just make fast pages if they're incentivized to (penalized SEO, users leaving their sites to use Facebook/Apple News) But that has been tried, an…

Have you even read the article? The only reason AMP is perceived as better than anything out there is because Google aggressively preloads it.

At best it's not better than anything else out there. Solutions to slow loading pages are well known and have nothing to do with AMP or "other web frameworks". Even Google themselves lay out the solutions: https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/rules. Nowhere does it say AMP. And if you bothered to read the article, you'd see that Google's own tools consider Google's own AMP to be bad and non-performant.

> Less talk and politics, more shipping code.

That's exactly how and why we ended up with AMP.

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#93

Post by kzrdude »

ino wrote: post #89
kzrdude wrote: post #22

Side note, install this extension to make medium pages readable by removing the useless top and bottom bars: https://github.com/thebaer/MMRA

Better yet, use reader mode in firefox/safari. Or stop visiting medium until they stop these user hostile practices.

Too many are using Medium. This recent HN posted link for example: https://blog.jupyter.org/jupyterlab-is-ready-for-users-5a6f0...

My protest is to talk about this issue in this HN thread, and to just install the extension so that the sites start to "just work".

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#94

Post by SquareWheel »

sseth wrote: post #86

AMP is one of a long series of Google's efforts to ensure the web remains competitive with walled gardens and native platforms. Chrome (with the V8 engine), NaCl, SPDY, QUIC, PWA, Dart, Certificate Transparency ... the list goes on and on. Some have succeeded (SPDY became HTTP/2) and some have failed (Dart, NaCl), but it has been consistent at least. Standards cannot become a strait-jacket. In many cases (such as HTT…

Well spoken. Most of these standards have been well-designed and open. People are much too quick to assume malice.

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#95

Post by tombrossman »

robin_reala wrote: post #20
mulmen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best thing to do is just be the kind of online citizen you want to see. It may be small but it is something you can do yourself. I will be looking for a way to move my online identity away from Google to something I control more directly. I am also going to try replacing my social media activity with email. The web is already decentralized, we just need to use it.

I closed my G Suite account today because of Google’s announcement of AMP for Email. Luckily I didn’t have a huge Google presence in the first place beyond email which is easily IMAPed over to another server. Takeout allowed me to extract the rest: my docs as ODF, YouTube subs as RSS and contacts as ICS. If anyone’s interested I wrote up my investigation into potential replacement mail services: http://www.robinwhitt…

> In the end I went with Runbox, will see how they perform but I’m happy so far.

I tried Runbox back in 2013 after a fair amount of research and they looked great. After signing up, they sent a confirmation email with all my account info with user-name and password in clear text. I cancelled immediately after seeing this, but I wonder if they are still doing it?

I ended up switching to Fastmail, which I still use and highly recommend.

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#96

Post by tankenmate »

rav wrote: post #91
tankenmate wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you run Amavis you can add a MIME type to the $banned_filename_re in a conf file (on debian based derivatives you'll normally find that in /etc/amavis/conf.d/20-debian_defaults). qr'^application/amp+html$'i, is what I use. If you want to put it in a separate file (such as a local config file) then you can just push(@$banned_filename_re,qr'^application/amp+html$'i);

Isn't the plus sign a special character in Perl regexes? That is, wouldn't you need to use this instead: qr'^application/amp\+html$'i,

You're right, thanks!

I still forget sometimes the differences between BRE, SRE, and ERE (mostly due to vim defaulting one thing and perl the other).

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#97

Post by philipwhiuk »

sseth wrote: post #86

AMP is one of a long series of Google's efforts to ensure the web remains competitive with walled gardens and native platforms. Chrome (with the V8 engine), NaCl, SPDY, QUIC, PWA, Dart, Certificate Transparency ... the list goes on and on. Some have succeeded (SPDY became HTTP/2) and some have failed (Dart, NaCl), but it has been consistent at least. Standards cannot become a strait-jacket. In many cases (such as HTT…

Neatly ignoring the fact they own and build one of the walled gardens.

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#98

Post by eadmund »

As an aside, I truly dislike lazy loading. If it's really that important to perceived page speed, isn't it something that the browsers should be implementing, rather than everyone and his brother breaking HTML and require full JavaScript execution in order to display images?

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#99

Post by dictum »

eadmund wrote: post #98

As an aside, I truly dislike lazy loading. If it's really that important to perceived page speed, isn't it something that the browsers should be implementing, rather than everyone and his brother breaking HTML and require full JavaScript execution in order to display images?

Blink may get built-in support for lazy loaded images: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-dev/czm...

I'm not excited about it. I can't remember a single time a page with lazy-loaded images felt snappier. It seems very dependent on latency to the host serving the images. Most pages also don't account for content shifting when images haven't loaded yet.

Re: AMP: the missing controversy

#100

Post by dmitriid »

sseth wrote: post #86

AMP is one of a long series of Google's efforts to ensure the web remains competitive with walled gardens and native platforms. Chrome (with the V8 engine), NaCl, SPDY, QUIC, PWA, Dart, Certificate Transparency ... the list goes on and on. Some have succeeded (SPDY became HTTP/2) and some have failed (Dart, NaCl), but it has been consistent at least. Standards cannot become a strait-jacket. In many cases (such as HTT…

AMP is not open web though. It's Google's own walled garden under the guise of an open web.
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