I’m disappointed that all this hoopla was completely avoidable: all Apple would have to do is end-to-end encrypt everything, and this wouldn’t even be an issue: they’d be no keys to hand over. Instead, by keeping the keys, they’ve basically opened themselves up to requests like these that they really have no choice but to abide by.
Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
41–50 of 109 posts
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#42Reminder: iCloud is entirely optional, even if Apple device provisoning UX uses dark patterns to hide the difference between App Store account (mandatory) and iCloud account (optional). For E2E messaging, you can use Wire which works even on iPads or iPod touch that does not have a phone number. Create an email-only account from a desktop PC at http://app.wire.com , then use that to sign into mobile device.
Stuff like this is why I backup to an encrypted USB drive.
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#43I’m disappointed that all this hoopla was completely avoidable: all Apple would have to do is end-to-end encrypt everything , and this wouldn’t even be an issue: they’d be no keys to hand over. Instead, by keeping the keys, they’ve basically opened themselves up to requests like these that they really have no choice but to abide by.
If they did not, perhaps China would ban iCloud (similar to WhatsApp and google’s services).
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#44This is why I always disable such things. Other vendors are mostly worse.
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#45To Apple's credit there are still significant parts of their platform that remain end-to-end encrypted even in China -- meaning that Apple or any other cloud operator can't read because they don't have the keys, notably:[1] - iMessage - Keychain - Siri data And more like health, home & payments. While it's unfortunate that Apple couldn't compel China to run their government requests for data through the U.S. court sy…
To Apple's non -credit, it's still tying iMessage backups to iCloud backups despite years of criticism over this. That means everyone who uses iCloud backups (enabled by default on iPhones) don't actually benefit from iMessage's "end-to-end encryption" (which isn't that safe against sophisticated hackers or oppressive authorities to begin with). I'd say people may as well forget about Apple's "privacy stance". It's n…
So don't use iCloud backups. You're never required to. You can trivially back up through iTunes, even automatically via Wi-Fi assuming you have them on the same network regularly.
Anyone concerned about privacy, the first thing they should be ensuring is they are NOT using iCloud backup.
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
We do worry about American activists, but the legal system is different here and Americans can easily use services hosted outside the US. Chinese users cannot easily use services hosted outside China.
> Americans can easily use services hosted outside the US. Chinese users cannot easily use services hosted outside China. Services hosted outside the US by companies with presence in the US fall under Patriot Act which means US can spy on them any time without warrant, but ianal. Even if the company has no presence in the US, there are only a handful of countries that would not bend over to hand data to US. That's wh…
Ok but you're still ignoring the basic fact that activists and even criminals in liberal democracies have legal and human rights.
In China, you have no guarantees and no recourse. Torture, forced confession and retaliation against your family are all on the table.
That's why no one worries about US activists the same way they do about Chinese ones.
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#47Speaking as a Chinese citizen, I'd say most people already use local apps/services for almost everything, so having Apple moving servers to China won't practically have any impact on "privacy" or "human rights concerns", at least to vast majority of the population. I really appreciate that Apple is finally moving their servers to China as downloading apps and updates from App Store has been painfully slow. iPhone has…
As of December 2017, iOS had around 19.7% of China's mobile web browsing market. That is unexpectedly huge, is there a large enough middle class to support that many iPhones?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held...
Sales in China have been expanding, though it goes up and down with new iPhone releases:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/13/apples-ne...
Samsung has absolutely gotten killed in China recently, but I don't think Apple has.
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#48Well, I do live in China and I don't see anyone feeling any fear about this... Seriously, you can easily turn off keychain if you don't trust a cloud service to store all your passwords. And if i decide to use such a service, I'd certainly trust a local company much more than Apple or anything of US origin.
There are many foreigners who live in China that are concerned about this. However, it is easy to get out of it just by setting your app store home to a country other than China.
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#49Speaking as a Chinese citizen, I'd say most people already use local apps/services for almost everything, so having Apple moving servers to China won't practically have any impact on "privacy" or "human rights concerns", at least to vast majority of the population. I really appreciate that Apple is finally moving their servers to China as downloading apps and updates from App Store has been painfully slow. iPhone has…
[deleted]
Re: Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
#50>When Apple Inc begins hosting Chinese users’ iCloud accounts in a new Chinese data center 1. get vpn 2. create US icloud account 3. ??? 4. profit?
it's not so easy without US credit/debit card
I would just stock up on USA iTune gift cards when I lacked a US credit card. Its not hard really, the real problem are Chinese apps that you might need for your day to day life (e.g. the dedicated Didi dache app if you didn't want to go native and use WeChat). Even then, Apple seems to let you change your app store easily, you can even have apps from both the US and Chinese app stores on your phone (or at least, that was true a couple of years ago).