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The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

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Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but feel that if Taleb put a little more effort into fleshing out his arguments I'd enjoy his writing a lot more. In most of what I've read from him, it always feels like he's more concerned with trying to make the reader feel smug about understanding his writing than actually trying to communicate anything meaningful. In this article, he has an aside where he complains that Agricultural Companies are ru…

You took the words from my mouth. While there is a valid and logical point here, his own asides and proselytising style provide avenues to undermine his argument. For instance, in many Muslim majority or even major minority countries, you do not have a universally halal food industry - most supermarkets are divided into "stuff (probably halal)" halal, and haram. If he halved the time and volume he puts into making hi…

Yeah. I lived in a city that's close to 20 percent Muslim for a while and ate at a few halal-only takeaways, but even there they were very much in the minority. (There was a fairly good place that not only served only 100% halal food, but also closed during the day during Ramadan, but that's because it was a non-chain outlet owned and run by observant Muslims.) Similarly, at least one of the major chains of budget supermarkets around here has loose peanuts and other nuts and just puts a warning in the window expecting anyone with a nut allergy to shop elsewhere. Most of the disabled people I know would probably have more than a few sharp things to say about his argument that they'd automatically be accommodated everywhere too.

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#162

I believe it. The most extraordinary evidence of this is the gay rights movement. They've adopted "Love Wins" as their slogan, but then refuse to even interact with people who may not support them (i.e: Mike Pence). Clearly, they don't believe their own propaganda.

“Love wins” is not a slogan of the gay right movement. A quick search turned up a bunch of Christian literature. So stop making up arguments.

Mike Pence wants to allow parents to send their children to “conversion therapy”, and your example of hurtful actions is not meeting with him?

I’m happy to meet with him any time that he’s free, but I can’t guarantee that he’ll enjoy it.

And, to quote a recent comment of yours, “Is this relevant to the linked article at all or are you just finding any excuse available to push your politics?”

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#163
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. He is meaning that there should be intolera…

Ironically, I usually see Karl Poppler's Paradox of Tolerance used to justify exactly what he's warning against.

That's actually the logical conclusion of "no tolerance for intolerance". Actual intolerance will re-emerge while using that as a slogan.

I honestly don't see any other conclusion while divisive identity politics is the culture. Every election and debate is just subtext for making sure your people are in power to protect your people.

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While running for Congress, Indiana governor Mike Pence called for state funding for "institutions" working to enable people to "change their sexual behavior." https://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-t...

From the link: Mike Pence once supported the use of federal funding to treat people "seeking to change their sexual behavior." That seems like a great thing to fund. Looks like our current vice president seems interested in helping those who seek help.

Just in case anyone is reading this comment and they think that "conversion therapy" isn't equivalent to torturing individuals I suggest the following op-ed from the NYT about a man who suffered through the process:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/opinion/gay-conversion-th...

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the downvotes are because it describes genocides as cases when the victims were too pushy and the majority were forced to defend themselves, something which you seem to agree with. It was a very common rationalization in at least one major genocide: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pushy+jew&t=lm&ia=web

I'm going to assume by that link you're saying this is a common rationalization of the Holocaust? Do you have a source for this? I learned in history classes growing up that conditions in Germany were bleak so the Jewish minority was used as a scapegoat. I've never heard an explanation for the Holocaust that differs greatly from this so I'm curious as to the historical and factual legitimacy behind your seemingly rid…

I personally agree with both of you. The german situation was bleak but I think it would be a misreading of history to think it was that hitler went after the jews simply because the germans were poor.

It seems pretty obvious that they were targeted partly because of their wealth and power across european society. To imagine the jews not being persecuted if they had little money or power is possible, but would require major rewrites of hitler rhetoric and their reasons for going after the jews over other races in particular.

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#166
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aristotle wrote that all matter is composed of 5 elements Popper wrote that society must be intolerant of intolerance http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/purdue-online-writing-lab-...

Sorry?

It's silly, shouldn't be considered the correct viewpoint, but a great soundbite and a nice principle from a very intelligent man. Waters down life.

Interolance gets vetted out with prosperity but it's not necessarily the requirement to achieving it as history has shown.

I'm not sure how to respond to the bit claiming that societies are destroyed by intolerance - did Popper own any history books? Is China doomed to fail today?

I wasn't expecting any up votes, but please tolerate my viewpoints!

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#168
post #155
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. I think you're right, from this timeline: http://www.greatachievements.org/?id=3854 Freon was invented in 1928, and started mass production a few years later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon By 1935, 8 million refrigerators had been sold using Freon as their refrigerant: https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-freon-4072212 His refrigerator comment was some time before 1953: https://plus.maths.org/cont…

Ammonia and other nasty chemicals remained in use well after then. For example, apparently GE sold their Monitor Top-style fridges with sulphur dioxide or methyl formate as the refrigerant until at least 1936 and they stayed in use for decades after they were discontinued.

My parents had one of those and used it until the early 2000's as their "garage beer fridge". They sold it for a substantial amount to a collector when they moved. Dad was a chemical engineer and I'm not sure he knew how toxic the refrigerant it contained was - he probably would have gotten rid of it sooner if he'd known.

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#169
post #41

What an overlong and rambling article. Over the years I've found the big trick in writing is to know what to leave out. This is hard to get right but TFA could really do with some editing, it would probably be a stronger article at 1/4 the size that it is.

This is so true that me and 'jacquesm actually agree on it. I think there's an Emperor's New Clothes thing happening with Taleb. Apparently, his technical writing is important and impactful. But his popular writing is prolix, repetitive, smug, and sometimes ill-reasoned.

His technical writing isn't that important or impactful.

Re: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority (2016)

#170
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument might be junk, but if you reject it solely because it points toward a conclusion that contradicts your pre-existing biases... I think you've left the path of wisdom.

I don't think it's wisdom to spend your time on seriously considering every bad take you ever hear.

True, but nobody said it was wise.
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