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Eldar Black Holes

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Re: Eldar Black Holes

#111

Post by krapp »

JonnyNova wrote: post #44
krapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What about the strange UFO occurences that pentagon acknowledged, are we getting visits from aliens within our universe or from another universe? The Pentagon has never acknowledged the existence of extraterrestrial craft, or of UFOs as being anything but hoaxes and misidentified, mundane phenomena. >but how could Buddha have known that blackholes existed? He didn't, any more than the Norse knew that wormholes exist…

The US government hasn't acknowledge the existence of aliens, but in 2016 the CIA admitted to funding programs because they suspected the existence of aliens. It is very hard to find a good source to link though due to terrible SNR when you google "cia aliens"

The government also studied remote viewing, and the Air Force had its own UFO project called Operation Blue Book, and of course there was MKULTRA looking into mind control, but just because something is studied doesn't mean it exists, or gives practical results.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#112

Post by IntronExon »

simonh wrote: post #92
IntronExon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the universe around them is comparing clocks with another frame of reference. On the ship, life at 99.9% and life at 1% of c is identical. By the same token, if you fell into an (inactive) supermassive black hole, your watch would trick the same way into and past the event horizon. You would in fact live inside the hole for hours until you were torn asunder.

The point is, the crew onboard the ship can compare clocks with those in different frames of reference at any time. All they have to do is observe the period of a pulsar for example, or measure the orbits of binary star systems, etc. It would be quite apparent to them that there is a time dilation effect for them with respect to most of the rest of the universe. See Tau Zero, by Poul Anderson. It has a few mistakes,…

I’m not claiming that they can’t recognize that their relative velocity is much greater than their surroundings. You can even calculate the degree of time dilation you’re experiencing relative to another observer, but I’m not talking about that either.

The biggest issue, aside from the model, is that time dilation is something which only matters when two observers “compare clocks.” Neither observer alone ever experiences a difference. The crew of a 99.9% lightspeed ship doesn’t experience time dilation... until they return home. It makes no sense to talk about the effects of time dilation from the point of view of a one-way trip to the event horizon.

That has to do with the experience of their frame of reference. Time does appear to “slow down” for them, rather everything else will seem to “speed up.” You can infer the difference, but you can’t sctually communicate that or compare with anyone else until you decelerate. In the extreme case of a gravitational event horizon, there will be no ability to ever communicate again. The fact that external observers will see you infinitely redshifted doesn’t imply anything about your experience of subjectively falling past the horizon. Both are valid frames of reference, but ultimately will develop spacelike separation which prohibits further communication.

As it relates to the issue st hand, you can’t make accurate statements about mass never passing through the EH based on observations from a distant from of reference.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#113

Post by abecedarius »

wcarss wrote: post #18
grondilu wrote: post #8

There is a fascinating PBS Space Time video[1] about black holes that questions the very existence of whatever is "inside" a black hole. They point out that as you approach a black hole, your proper time is advancing slower and slower when compared to an observer located far away from the black hole (like us, on Earth). That means that from the point of view of this far observer, nothing happens inside a black hole u…

off-topic a bit: does anyone have suggestions for paths for the layperson toward being able to reason and intuit about this stuff at one level beyond pop physics claptrap? I have heard "the theoretical minimum" suggested in the past, but I haven't heard from anyone who has actually used it to go from zero to say, general relativity, only people who think it sounds good. It also seems like a steep investment -- I just…

Thinking Physics: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Physics-Understandable-Pract...

It's a little bit like The Little Schemer in that it often asks you a question and expects you to try to answer it before turning the page (or turning it upside down). The problems tend to go like "if you did this, would that (A) increase (B) decrease (C) stay the same" or "(A) increase by one (B) double (C) quadruple" -- to minimize technical machinery while still engaging you with genuine problems, not vague analogies.

The same author has a book on relativity which looked very good from the first couple of chapters I read.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#114

Post by shullbitt0r »

IntronExon wrote: post #81
olegkikin wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crew of a 99.9% lightspeed ship doesn’t experience time dilation until they return home. That's not true. They see the universe around them moving much faster. Time dilation has nothing to do with "returning home".

Seeing the universe around them is comparing clocks with another frame of reference. On the ship, life at 99.9% and life at 1% of c is identical. By the same token, if you fell into an (inactive) supermassive black hole, your watch would trick the same way into and past the event horizon. You would in fact live inside the hole for hours until you were torn asunder.

> Seeing the universe around them is comparing clocks with another frame of reference

So, if you don't sense anything, you don't sense time dilation either?

This is slightly more complicated. First of all, you haven't given a frame of reference. If you claim someone were moving at 0.99c then you have already set the frame of reference. And they would have to gain near infinite mass and would die. You seem to assume a restricted frame of reference though, inside the spaceship. So, a point of reference inside the spaceship would see light moving with c inside the spaceship. And would assume his own point of reference as the origin of the inertial frame of reference. So baring any outside measurement, how do you know the spaceship is moving with 0.99c and in which frame of reference?

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#115

Post by shullbitt0r »

AgentME wrote: post #104
mtgx wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it mean that only the space around the black hole sees that "infinite amount of time" pass, and not the whole universe? So in that case, you wouldn't be seeing the "future of the universe" just the "future" (I guess) of the space around the black hole. I kind of see blackholes in space as vortexes in a lake. Anything that gets "trapped" in the vortex moves much faster, including the water (space-time) itself.…

I think you've got it backwards. As on object approaches a black hole, an outside observer will see that object's clock slow down and eventually stopping as it hits the event horizon. Conversely, the object falling into the black hole will see the rest of the universe's clocks speed up. It could watch stars (far from the black hole) be born and die. If you take a trip close to a black hole's event horizon and then fl…

> As on object approaches a black hole, an outside observer will see that object's clock slow down and eventually stopping as it hits the event horizon.

So I had the idea that smaller black holes are at the center of the sun, the earth and so on, being the principle source of gravity and the "movement" that we see is just us falling into different black holes at the same time, which are also falling into each other. So micro black holes must be at the center of massive particles too. The world line of a photon on the other hand is just the intersection of two event horizons as they grow, so you get a wave model. And that's why you have entanglement: circles have two intersections, so if your model is two dimensional, you get two entanglements. But you can have vastly more complicated geometries and thus assembles of entangled particles.

I don't know the "standard model" well enough to take the analogy any further, not to mention string theory and all that jazz.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#117

Post by shullbitt0r »

shullbitt0r wrote: post #114
IntronExon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the universe around them is comparing clocks with another frame of reference. On the ship, life at 99.9% and life at 1% of c is identical. By the same token, if you fell into an (inactive) supermassive black hole, your watch would trick the same way into and past the event horizon. You would in fact live inside the hole for hours until you were torn asunder.

> Seeing the universe around them is comparing clocks with another frame of reference So, if you don't sense anything, you don't sense time dilation either? This is slightly more complicated. First of all, you haven't given a frame of reference. If you claim someone were moving at 0.99c then you have already set the frame of reference. And they would have to gain near infinite mass and would die. You seem to assume a…

Oops: I notice my mistake now, acceleration is the problem, not speed.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#118

Post by IntronExon »

shullbitt0r wrote: post #117
shullbitt0r wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seeing the universe around them is comparing clocks with another frame of reference So, if you don't sense anything, you don't sense time dilation either? This is slightly more complicated. First of all, you haven't given a frame of reference. If you claim someone were moving at 0.99c then you have already set the frame of reference. And they would have to gain near infinite mass and would die. You seem to assume a…

Oops: I notice my mistake now, acceleration is the problem, not speed.

Nailed it, although you were right in some of your objections, the 99.9% c ship is just a toy to illustrste the extreme dilation near a black hole.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#119

Post by samstave »

dghughes wrote: post #34

From one of the article links, " aliens can live inside black holes." >They would also be brightly illuminated by the central singularity and by photons trapped in the same orbit. That sounds creepily like a typical description of heaven. Timeless, ageless, godlike beings all in a region of intense uniform brightness.

Holy carpe diem

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#120

Post by visarga »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #100
visarga wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, maths are just approximations of reality, not something fundamental to it.

I think the jury is still out on mathematical realism. Our current physics is almost certainly an imperfect description/model however.

Even if we'd know the perfect model for particle physics, we still can't apply math straight for simulation. We always prefer an approximation, all real world models are approximations.
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