Live data from Hacker News

Eldar Black Holes

projectrho.com

101–110 of 166 posts

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#101
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A traveler can reach it all right, but only from his own point of view. From the point of view of almost everyone else in the Universe, including us on Earth, it will never ever reach it. It's like the traveler has jumped into an other universe "located" in an infinitely distant future.

So let's say I fall into a black hole. And then four billion years later, someone else falls into a black hole from the same direction. From an outside perspective at a point nearly infinitely far away in time, we would seem to slow until we are right next to each other at the event horizon, correct? Does this mean everything that falls into a black hole crosses the event horizon (from their perspective) at the same…

> From an outside perspective at a point nearly infinitely far away in time, we would seem to slow until we are right next to each other at the event horizon, correct?

Incorrect. You would still be relativisticly separated and this would be measurable especially at infinity. You would be accelerated by 4 billion more years and would have that much more relativistic acceleration in signals you sent out. This could be monitored and the outside observers would be able to tell the difference. The second person would be more blue shifted compared to you (clock ticking faster).

> Does this mean everything that falls into a black hole crosses the event horizon (from their perspective) at the same moment, a moment which only exists from the crossers' perspective, as it is always infinitely far away from a perspective outside the event horizon?

No, their clocks tick away just like they always did. They cross the event horizon just as they thought they would. They do 'see' the universe's clocks accelerate along though. But they do cross it nonetheless.

Note: By 'see' I mean that the rest of the universe blue shifts to infinity and the Lorentz transformation causes the incoming radiation to be directed to directly in front of you. Only when you cross the event horizon, the incoming radiation from the 'outside' turns into an infinitely energetic (infinite blue shift) beam of radiation coming directly at you. In your reference frame, you vaporize.

This is my BHs are soooo crazy. When we run the numbers, the Quantum Mechanical effects really do affect things. Infinitely small wavelength light isn't something we can really handle, the Plank Length should come into play. But General Relativity don't care. This is why we really need Quantum Gravity, because nothing makes sense.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#102
post #45

Reminds me a bit of the old short story The Crystal Spheres. In that universe, once a civilization had attained a certain level of advancement, they intentionally migrated to a black hole to await the arrival of others (the idea being that all advanced civilizations in the universe were separated by so much time , that they suffered from a sort of loneliness). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Spheres

The BHs act like cosmic 'eggs', with civilizations acting like the 'sperm' then? Talk about first mover advantage!

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#103

Wonder if they also explored the possibility that we are in a black hole and the universe structure is recursive. Maybe the background radiation is the part of the hawking radiation that falls inward. And we perceive it infinite but it’s the dilatated space between the hevent horizon and the naked singularity at the center. And the big bang was the supernova that left the black hole. Trippinng!

I've always liked toying with the idea (in my own head, not an astrophysicist) that space is cyclical, or in your words, recursive. I love animations where it zooms out farther and farther into space, until it gets to the point where galaxies start to resemble molecular structures. And then of course The Simpson's did a couch gag where exactly this happens and they zoom out and out into space until it finally zooms o…

Learning of atoms initially I was given an orbital model, like a solar system, who caused/allowed me to form a similar idea (I think it's quite common?) that solar systems could be atoms in a super-universe. I was so annoyed as a teenager to find that atoms aren't really little solar systems.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#104
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing that never made sense to me about the black holes. The closer you are to the event horizon, the faster the time passes for the universe around you. So reaching the event horizon should take infinite amount of the "outside time", so right before you reach the horizon, you should see the whole future of the universe, including its end, if there's any. So how do black holes gain any mass then?

Doesn't it mean that only the space around the black hole sees that "infinite amount of time" pass, and not the whole universe? So in that case, you wouldn't be seeing the "future of the universe" just the "future" (I guess) of the space around the black hole. I kind of see blackholes in space as vortexes in a lake. Anything that gets "trapped" in the vortex moves much faster, including the water (space-time) itself.…

I think you've got it backwards. As on object approaches a black hole, an outside observer will see that object's clock slow down and eventually stopping as it hits the event horizon. Conversely, the object falling into the black hole will see the rest of the universe's clocks speed up. It could watch stars (far from the black hole) be born and die. If you take a trip close to a black hole's event horizon and then fly away, you could find yourself in the far future.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in a black hole. The event horizon of the entire universe is on the same order as the observable universe. We are inside the black hole of the universe.

There a germ of the right idea here, but our universe is really more of a black hole backwards. Within the event horizon of a black hole, the singularity is always in the future. Within our universe, we see a singularity in our past. In short, our universe looks more like a white hole than a black hole.

Couldn’t we just be perceiving time backward? I’m no physicist, but AIUI the equations work either way. As a sci-fi–head, sometimes I just like to speculate—“What if the ‘point’ of the universe is the singularity of the big bang?” (Yeah, pun intended.)

If we’re in a simulation, maybe it’s the final result of the computation. If we’re in a black hole, maybe it’s in the past of the universe within, but in the future of the one without. All good material for a short story, one of these days…

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in a black hole. The event horizon of the entire universe is on the same order as the observable universe. We are inside the black hole of the universe.

There a germ of the right idea here, but our universe is really more of a black hole backwards. Within the event horizon of a black hole, the singularity is always in the future. Within our universe, we see a singularity in our past. In short, our universe looks more like a white hole than a black hole.

Black hole does not imply singularity.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another book whose name is on the tip of my tongue that has a similar premise, except the planet instead of the entire system is encased in a sort of time-dilation field. Naturally, humanity thinks it's an attack.

I believe you're thinking of Spin by Robert Charles Winston. Really good book

Yup, thanks!

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another book whose name is on the tip of my tongue that has a similar premise, except the planet instead of the entire system is encased in a sort of time-dilation field. Naturally, humanity thinks it's an attack.

Sounds like Spin by Robert Charles Wilson.

Yup, thanks!

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#109
post #45

Reminds me a bit of the old short story The Crystal Spheres. In that universe, once a civilization had attained a certain level of advancement, they intentionally migrated to a black hole to await the arrival of others (the idea being that all advanced civilizations in the universe were separated by so much time , that they suffered from a sort of loneliness). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Spheres

A similar theme is in "Pushing Ice" by Alastair Reynolds.

Someone has built machines that capture beings and then use near-light speed travel to align civilization in time.

Re: Eldar Black Holes

#110
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but remember our science today will look like Norse mythology in 1000 years too.

Like Newton's Principia (from 1684) looks like Norse mythology? It is still a valid model except for a few minor errors, and almost halfway to 1000 years. Better yet might be Greek mathematics, e.g. Euclid's Elements which is more than 2300 years old now. The language is different of course, but the content itself reads a lot like a good proof-oriented geometry textbook.

Maybe I'm factoring in our accelerating rate of advancement.
Post reply on HN