Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#231

Post by Bartweiss » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

Avshalom wrote: post #22

Of course "overweight" has as-good or better long term health outcomes so... Meh? https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/1/55/849914

This is an interesting paper, particularly the sections on how Americans have gained weight. "Obesity is up!" is much less informative than specifying which populations have gained how much like this does.

That said, the section on health outcomes is not hugely compelling. The "normal weight has worse outcomes" studies (particularly the famous NEJM one) have a significant set of problems.

NEJM simply didn't use the same bucketing as common parlance, so bucketed comparisons (as opposed to BMI ones) are basically meaningless.

More broadly, these studies are generally correlational, which produces serious issues regarding patients suffering from diseases. Eating disorders have very high mortality and often cause low weights, while conditions like cancer and neurodegenerative disease often cause both mortality and low weight. Without correcting for that, you're actually noticing trends like "late stage cancer patients are both skinny and sick".

I'll have to go and dig up references, but I thought the current state of research suggested that among otherwise-healthy patients, especially men in middle age or older, health outcomes noticeably worsened beyond the middle of the overweight category?

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#232

Post by nradov » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

lobster_johnson wrote: post #148

izietto wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm italian and I visited united states a couple of months ago. In my opinion the biggest problem is that you don't have decent food at affordable prices. Healthy food has nonsensical high prices and if you want something at a human price you don't have much choice except fast food. What a shame.

I'm curious about this. I lived in a predominantly Latino (mostly Puerto Rican) neighborhood of Brooklyn for a while a couple of years back. The supermarkets were full of fresh, cheap food, yet the customers (who were consistently overweight and often obese, including the kids) were piling their shopping carts up with terrible stuff -- sugary cereals (Froot Loops etc.), sugary drinks (sodas, fruit juices, Caprisun, i…

The funny thing is, Froot Loops has no more sugar per equivalent serving than most granola which people naively assume is more "healthy".

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#233

Post by Kevin_S » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:22 PM UTC

deviationblue wrote: post #196

I have a very unpopular opinion on this: if someone is overweight, and isn't sick or malfunctioning in any way that negatively impacts themselves, their loved ones, or society, then who gives a shit? The libertarian and contrarian in me doesn't care what someone weighs, or how they choose to life. So extrapolating to a larger population, or society, I still fail to see how being collectively overweight is a negative…

Being overweight is bad for your individual health.

We know certain things in society have an impact on how overweight people get.

Identifying and fixing those things is worthwhile.

No one is insinuating that we should force people to become fit or anything, as you imply here.

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#234

Post by Bartweiss » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:24 PM UTC

pascalxus wrote: post #31

izietto wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm italian and I visited united states a couple of months ago. In my opinion the biggest problem is that you don't have decent food at affordable prices. Healthy food has nonsensical high prices and if you want something at a human price you don't have much choice except fast food. What a shame.

That's partly because much of the government subsides go towards subsidizing corn, ending up in high fructose corn syrup and all the junk food most people consume. It's quite sad, that everyone is so okay with this. Personally, I try to eat as healthy as possible and use my nutrient finder ( https://kale.world/c ) to find high nutrient, low calorie foods, which end up being mostly beans, vegetables and fruits.

Wow - the rest of the thread aside, that's a fantastic nutrition tool.

edit: I just fed it one of the tasks I've found most frustrating - how to optimize protein:carbs ratio without resorting to meat. Most of the diet advice I've seen on that question is unhelpful, since it emphasizes for "enough protein" and not ratio. But this turned up exactly what I was after.

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#235

Post by _1qd4 » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:25 PM UTC

always_good wrote: post #222

chefandy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely seems odd on its face, but if you dig into it, you'll see that it's SO much more complex than simple access. Other factors include, but are certainly not limited to: Time to prepare: fresh foods generally take a lot longer, and a lot more effort to prepare than processed foods. When you've got each available parent working two jobs then this is a huge barrier. Knowledge of preparation: especially in immigr…

> Fussy Kids: people who appeasing fussy kids (yeah yeah yeah... the hardos without kids will say you should just force them to eat it. Life isn't so straightforward.) My friends with children basically fall into two camps: one camp that agrees with you and blames their kids, and the other camp that just feeds their kids healthy food because, like your pet dog or cat, can't drive to the grocery store when it refuses…

It hurts to watch you child starve because they are being picky. I had a teacher tell me she didn't want to eat peas one night, so her father sent her to bed hungry. She woke up a few hours later, went downstairs to her cold plate of peas still on the table, and ate the whole thing.

I had a classmate in high school who ONLY ate pancakes and fries. He was from a wealthy family and his mother had various supplements she would put in the pancakes to keep him healthy. We went on a week long canoe trip where you obviously can't eat pancakes and fries 24/7. 3 days in, this guy is starving, and for the first time in his life had pasta, trailmix, and eggs.

Children don't have fully developed faculties for reasoning, you can't take a reasonable approach to solving pickiness. Things seem to taste better the hungrier you get, so I think the approach to pickiness is to starve them out.

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#236

Post by hangonhn » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:27 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #216

hangonhn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Bologna not too long ago and I was baffled by how fresh, high quality ingredients are available at affordable prices. I've seen similar quality ingredients in the Bay Area but they charge an arm and a leg for it. I don't know how the Italians do it or why we Americans have such a hard time doing something similar.

Why would "fresh" and "high quality" make you lose weight?

That's a good question. I think it has to do with a lot of food that are not calorie dense and more likely to satiate you simply taste better fresh and not so great past a certain age. On the flip side, foods that tends to taste good for a long time also tend to be calorie dense and some studies suggest aren't likely to trigger the signals for satiation.

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#237

Post by antisthenes » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #43

How many of these people are actually "overweight" as far as health and how many are "overweight" according to BMI? When I was in the best shape of my life from my mid 20s to my mid 30s, working out 12 hours a week (part time fitness instructor and a runner) with a body fat of 12% (measured with calipers) and a 29-30 inch waist, I was according to the BMI calculations 30 pounds overweight. Even now weighing 10 pounds…

What's your weight and height?

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#238

Post by 3pt14159 » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #232

lobster_johnson wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about this. I lived in a predominantly Latino (mostly Puerto Rican) neighborhood of Brooklyn for a while a couple of years back. The supermarkets were full of fresh, cheap food, yet the customers (who were consistently overweight and often obese, including the kids) were piling their shopping carts up with terrible stuff -- sugary cereals (Froot Loops etc.), sugary drinks (sodas, fruit juices, Caprisun, i…

The funny thing is, Froot Loops has no more sugar per equivalent serving than most granola which people naively assume is more "healthy".

Well it depends but most granola has more fibre than fruit loops which means it is healthier because it has a lower glycemic load. Even so—not a huge fan of sweetened granola.

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#239

Post by nradov » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #224

protonimitate wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree American cities don't promote the most healthy lifestyles, it's not like city-dwelers are less healthy or more obese on average than those who live in the country. You're spot on with your second paragraph though. There is a lot of misinformation about nutrition, dieting, and food in general, and it's all aimed at one goal: turning a profit. Sugar is one of the major culprits, but over eating in general…

> It's really that simple. Everything you list is simple, but nearly impossible for most people to stick with for life. It's not a matter of education, it's the fact that implementing that plan is physically and emotionally painful and wears most people down inside of a week or two.

As I've gotten older I've come to appreciate pro surfer Laird Hamilton's perspective on making friends with pain. That doesn't mean you should be a masochist, just stop seeing pain as something to always avoid.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/page/bodyreecehamilton/just...

Re: Obesity and Overweight Prevalence for the U.S

#240

Post by antisthenes » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

deviationblue wrote: post #196

I have a very unpopular opinion on this: if someone is overweight, and isn't sick or malfunctioning in any way that negatively impacts themselves, their loved ones, or society, then who gives a shit? The libertarian and contrarian in me doesn't care what someone weighs, or how they choose to life. So extrapolating to a larger population, or society, I still fail to see how being collectively overweight is a negative…

Being overweight has a plethora of scientific evidence as being bad for you. I'm not going to re-cite the last 50 years of medical publications if that's what you're expecting.

Extrapolating it to society means that healthy people have to subsidize the unhealthy, so it's extremely unfair to those who chose to invest in their health. So being 'contrarian' in this context is just being wrong, ignoring evidence and contributing nothing to the discussion.